Psychiatric Background check clarification

[RX8er]

I don't disagree with the language of the Texas Code and think based on the OP supplied info, the license will be issued.

The CHL application doesn't give you examples of what does or doesn't qualify you for you to use your best judgement on what to supply or not. It simply asks "Have you ever been treated and/or admitted to a facility for drug, alcohol and/or psychiatric care." The answer to this question is yes using the OP original post. It is then up to the DPS investigator to take the info that the OP supplies and use the Code being cited to make a determination.

Using your argument, you are saying there is no reason to disclose an arrest that would not dis-qualify you.

If I asked the question in the forum:

I was arrested only once for drunk driving 6 years ago and I had only 3 months probation should I tell DPS.

Would you tell me not to disclose this on my application because it alone would not disqualify me according to 411.172? Of course not, you would tell me to disclose it. Why? Is it because DPS can easil see an arrest and not mental health?

[the_winter_soldier]

Hey guys just got off of work lots of good information here. The thing about it is that in the application it asks for any dates and treatment after you select yes. So In saying yes there's more to it, it would seem. it seems as though it will delay the application a significant amount of time and send them to go looking for a reason NOT to give you one even if there isn't one.

[ScottDLS]

I don't disagree with the language of the Texas Code and think based on the OP supplied info, the license will be issued.

The CHL application doesn't give you examples of what does or doesn't qualify you for you to use your best judgement on what to supply or not. It simply asks "Have you ever been treated and/or admitted to a facility for drug, alcohol and/or psychiatric care." The answer to this question is yes using the OP original post. It is then up to the DPS investigator to take the info that the OP supplies and use the Code being cited to make a determination.

Using your argument, you are saying there is no reason to disclose an arrest that would not dis-qualify you.

If I asked the question in the forum:

I was arrested only once for drunk driving 6 years ago and I had only 3 months probation should I tell DPS.

Would you tell me not to disclose this on my application because it alone would not disqualify me according to 411.172? Of course not, you would tell me to disclose it. Why? Is it because DPS can easil see an arrest and not mental health?

You got me thinking on this one, but I went to the application form 78A and the question is phrased:

Have you ever been treated and/or admitted to a facility for drug, alcohol and/or psychiatric care.

It is admittedly an awkward sentence construction, but if you break it down... Have you ever been admitted to a facility? AND/OR Have you ever been treated "to" a facility?... I take the sentence to mean treated IN a "FACILITY", since otherwise it makes no sense...

I find further support for this in that if you answer YES because you were treated by a doctor...but not IN a FACILITY...you are referred to 78C, where you are to document

Indicate any history or information, of treatment and/or diagnosis received by, commitment to, or residence in:

-drug or alcohol treatment center; OR
-psychiatric hospital; OR
-mental institution; OR
-a physician for a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control, or
intellectual ability (per Texas Government Code §411.172(d)(1))

Since this would involve leaving the form blank in my example, I conclude that the proper answer to the original question would be NO.

[the_winter_soldier]

This makes for a very good reason for me to answer no, as this was my thought process.

I don't disagree with the language of the Texas Code and think based on the OP supplied info, the license will be issued.

The CHL application doesn't give you examples of what does or doesn't qualify you for you to use your best judgement on what to supply or not. It simply asks "Have you ever been treated and/or admitted to a facility for drug, alcohol and/or psychiatric care." The answer to this question is yes using the OP original post. It is then up to the DPS investigator to take the info that the OP supplies and use the Code being cited to make a determination.

Using your argument, you are saying there is no reason to disclose an arrest that would not dis-qualify you.

If I asked the question in the forum:

I was arrested only once for drunk driving 6 years ago and I had only 3 months probation should I tell DPS.

Would you tell me not to disclose this on my application because it alone would not disqualify me according to 411.172? Of course not, you would tell me to disclose it. Why? Is it because DPS can easil see an arrest and not mental health?

You got me thinking on this one, but I went to the application form 78A and the question is phrased:

Have you ever been treated and/or admitted to a facility for drug, alcohol and/or psychiatric care.

It is admittedly an awkward sentence construction, but if you break it down... Have you ever been admitted to a facility? AND/OR Have you ever been treated "to" a facility?... I take the sentence to mean treated IN a "FACILITY", since otherwise it makes no sense...

I find further support for this in that if you answer YES because you were treated by a doctor...but not IN a FACILITY...you are referred to 78C, where you are to document

Indicate any history or information, of treatment and/or diagnosis received by, commitment to, or residence in:

-drug or alcohol treatment center; OR
-psychiatric hospital; OR
-mental institution; OR
-a physician for a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control, or
intellectual ability (per Texas Government Code §411.172(d)(1))

Since this would involve leaving the form blank in my example, I conclude that the proper answer to the original question would be NO.

[RX8er]

I can't say that I would have checked the box if I were in the same shoes.

I have enjoyed the discussion but we will have to agree to disagree.....
IMO, I thin kthe point is, disclose everything and let DPS make a decision and if there is a question, let a doctor get involved.

I read 78C as well. The very top line says "Indicate any history or information, of treatment and/or diagnosis received by, commitment to, or residence in:"

Any History of treatment
or diagnosis received by

Maybe I am wrong but I read that question like:
Have you ever been treated for drug
Have you ever been treated alcohol
Have you ever been treated for psychiatric care

Have you ever been admitted to a facility for drug
...

The same way for:
Have you ever been arrested for a crime
Have you ever been charged with a crime

No offense to the OP, but IMHO, there is a problem when we tell a possible CHL holder not to disclose a mental health issue. I think that any mental health diagnoses should be disclosed and let the ones who diagnosed us also tell us we are okay to conceal. I personally don't want folks with current mental health issues carrying a firearm or even having access to one. Now, how we go about this is the million dollar question.

OP, good luck.

[TexasGal]

Mild depression with a medication and some office visits (without hospitalization) that resolved normally is not the same as any of the serious mental illnesses they list. Unless you were so ill you were put in a hospital for treatment your situation was not what they are concerned about. Assuming your official diagnosis was just mild depression. Lots of people get mildly depressed and it resolves with minor treatment or even on it's own. That is far different from the kinds of mental disorders that cause substantial impairment of judgement, loss of self control, suicidal behavior, and psychosis.

The following constitutes evidence that a person has a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subsection (d)(1):
(1) involuntary psychiatric hospitalization in the preceding five-year period;
(2) psychiatric hospitalization in the preceding two-year period;
(3) inpatient or residential substance abuse treatment in the preceding five-year period;
(4) diagnosis in the preceding five-year period by a licensed physician that the person is dependent on alcohol, a controlled substance, or a similar substance; or
(5) diagnosis at any time by a licensed physician that the person suffers or has suffered from a psychiatric disorder or condition consisting of or relating to:
(A) schizophrenia or delusional disorder;
(B) bipolar disorder;
(C) chronic dementia, whether caused by illness, brain defect,
or brain injury;
(D) dissociative identity disorder;
(E) intermittent explosive disorder; or
(F) antisocial personality disorder.

I would not worry about it if it was as you have described and you are sure your official diagnosis was not something else.
Of course, I am not a psychiatrist. Nor a lawyer.

[the_winter_soldier]

Rx8r None taken, and I can see your point as well however the same reservation you have about a CHL holder having a gun with a mental issue is part of my concern that my situation will be looked at the same way by the DPS. Mild depression in my case specifically, was not a game changer at the time, I never considered taking my life or anyone else is and I've been a gun owner for a long time prior to my diagnosis.


In my opinion I don't consider what I went through and am no longer being affected by to be considered a disqualifier as my depression- in my non professional opinion- was brought on by circumstances of losing my job along with other external situations. there is a lack of information when it comes to mental illness, everyone either thinks you're crazy or you're not and that's just not how it works. It isn't acurate to be painted with such a broad brush stroke with the wrong color.

This isnt it to implicate you specifically because I did not get that you were headed that direction. But stating that you don't want someone with a mental disorder to have a CHL somewhat underlines the issue, which would be either you arent crazy and can have a chl or you are and should not be allowed to have a weapon/chl.

To be clear though I have no issue with you or your views and I think you make a very valid point in full disclosure being important. This post was not intended to attack you or that view. Hopefully you do not take it that way.

[RX8er]

Rx8r None taken

Thank you. I was worried that you might think I was picking on you and that wasn't my point.

This isnt it to implicate you specifically because I did not get that you were headed that direction. But stating that you don't want someone with a mental disorder to have a CHL somewhat underlines the issue, which would be either you arent crazy and can have a chl or you are and should not be allowed to have a weapon/chl.

To be clear though I have no issue with you or your views and I think you make a very valid point in full disclosure being important. This post was not intended to attack you or that view. Hopefully you do not take it that way.

I have enjoyed the discussions and I certainly haven't gotten my feeling hurt. I'll have to go back up and read but maybe I wasn't clear in communicating what I was trying to say.

To be clear, it isn't that I don't want someone with a mental disorder to have a gun. How many kids have ADHD or adults with Depression? I don't think if you are diagnosed with an illnesses, that you be disqualified. I think that the doctor that is treating you should have a say in the matter. I hate to say this but let's face it. In the last couple of months, we have had two very high profile shootings and in both cases, mental illnesses were to blame.

It is a big unknown right now with how the mental health laws are going to change and was pointed out earlier by Jumping Frog.

[SewTexas]

personally I agree with the interpretation that it seems to imply you only need to check yes if you've been treated IN a facility. IDK, that's the way it reads to me too.

[bayouhazard]

You got me thinking on this one, but I went to the application form 78A and the question is phrased:

Have you ever been treated and/or admitted to a facility for drug, alcohol and/or psychiatric care.

It is admittedly an awkward sentence construction, but if you break it down... Have you ever been admitted to a facility? AND/OR Have you ever been treated "to" a facility?... I take the sentence to mean treated IN a "FACILITY", since otherwise it makes no sense...

Have you ever been
treated
and/or
admitted to a facility
for drug, alcohol and/or psychiatric care.

[the_winter_soldier]

Its been some days and I almost forgot about my post :-! But at the moment barring any weird circumstances I'll probably wait and talk it over with my doc. I just hope I don't regret it.

[MeMelYup]

Have your Doc do a letter to you that: You are not a violent threat to yourself, your family or the public.

[batman01]

So has anyone received or been denied a CHL since this thread was started? Curious to know if mental therapy or counseling was disclosed or not and if additional paperwork needed to be submitted.