Your thoughts on defensive ammo for short barrel 45ACP

[Mike from Texas]

Since the 45ACP isn't an overly fast round to begin with, is it wise to go to a lighter bullet out of a short barrel 45ACP in order to keep velocity levels up to sufficient levels to insure adequate penetration and expansion? In my XD45 I carry Winchester Ranger T 230 grain +P. This is shown to be 990fps at the muzzle in a 5" barrel gun. In a 3" I think I can reasonably assume that I will lose in the neighborhood of 150fps. So that would put me in the neighborhood of 840 which would start to concern me for sufficient expansion with a heavy jacketed bullet like the Ranger T. What are your thoughts?

Double TAP ammo advertises their 45ACP 200 grain Speer Gold Dots at 1125 fps in a 5" 1911. So making the same assumptions I would guess that would put me in the neighborhood of 975fps which I would feel much more comfortable at. Their 185 Speer Gold Dot is listed at 1225fps and with the 3" I would remain up around 1075fps which I think would be ideal. The good thing is their ammo is listed below +P pressures so it would be ok to shoot in my Ultra Carry.

You can buy a 150 round variety pack from them with up to 3 different loadings that I am going to buy. Anybody got any ballistic gelatin laying around they want to give me?

[Mike1951]

The Speer 230gr Gold Dot Short Barrel would merit strong consideration.

There are other factors designed into the round, such as optimum expansion as its designed velocities and more manageable recoil.

I will admit being surprised that the Gold Dot Short Barrel chono'd much slower (@800fps) through my Kahr P45 3.5" barrel than my standard old Hydra Shoks (@850fps). The Hydra Shoks showed very little loss since factory from a 5" is only 890fps.

Still, the Short Barrel is designed to work well at 820fps out of a 4".

[KinnyLee]

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... .php?t=753

Corbon DPX .45ACP Compact Gun Load.

[TX Rancher]

Here's a vote for the Gold Dot Short Barrel load. I've been using the 230G HP loads for several months, and they have been very reliable in my Kimber (Ultra Carry) Para (P12) and Les Baer (Stinger).

If I can dig up my chrono data I'll post it...

[HankB]

In .45, I tend to prefer "premium" 230 grain JHP bullets . . . I figure that if for some reason they don't expand, they're still going to perform like standard hardball, and that really isn't so bad.

[propellerhead]

I pondered over this when I was carrying my Taurus PT-145. In the end I decided that a .45 is already "expanded" when compared to 9mm or .380 and still weighs more. I think it was Speer that had photos of their 230 gr fully expanded when shot from a 3" barrel at about 850 fps. I never found conclusive data that a .45 would not expand when shot from a 3" barrel. Only speculation. In the end, I continued carrying 230 gr and quit worrying about it.

[Syntax360]

There was an e-mail from CCI/Speer floating around on another forum that said their 230gr. standard pressure load would be just fine for most applications, and that their SB "short barrel" load was for <=3.5" barrels.

You also might want to consider Double Tap - their "standard pressure" stuff is h-o-t .

[Mike from Texas]

There was an e-mail from CCI/Speer floating around on another forum that said their 230gr. standard pressure load would be just fine for most applications, and that their SB "short barrel" load was for <=3.5" barrels.

You also might want to consider Double Tap - their "standard pressure" stuff is h-o-t .

Yeah, the ammo in question would be for my Ultra Carry. I do plan on trying the Double Tap stuff. The stats are impressive and they are talked about highly on the Glock Talk forums and the Combat Carry forums.

[nemesis]

I've always believed that minimum velocity ammo starts with a disadvantage imposed when there is any substantive material between the gun and the target. Auto glass and sheet metal will slow down any projectile.

The short 3 1/2" barrel of my Springfield Ultra Compact does not provide the required length to bring a 230 grain bullet up to full velocity and I've always used 185's to resolve this issue.

I have chrono'd Remington Golden Sabers with my Pact Professional and found that the 185 grain standard pressure load had a muzzle velocity of 950 fps. The Golden Saber 185 grain +P loads pushed the muzzle velocity up to 1045 fps and that seems to be a significant improvement.

Thats my choice and thats what I carry.

[stevie_d_64]

I've always been impressed with this stuff...

http://www.rbcd.net/

And an unbias ammo performance site says a few things here as well:

http://www.muddyjeep.com/rbcd_ammo_test.htm

I also am not affiliate with the company, yet I have shot this stuff as well, and the performance, low-penetration, highly effective wounding ammunition seems to be a pretty good thing when it comes to this stuff...

Its design concept is a lot like Corbon ammo...

Sure, premium self-defense ammunition is expensive, but heck I think people are worth it...And bad guys are sure worth getting shot with the best stuff you can find...

But thats just my opinion...

This is certainly not a magic bullet by any means...But I like the data, I've seen and felt how good it shoots...The velocities are excellent without +P-ing the heck out of the load...

Never had a failure to feed or fire in any gun I have used this stuff in...

There are several distributors that sell these wares at gunshows all over the state...The website should give you an idea who to contact and get exact prices...

I always keep a box or two of this around...I am looking to aquire a box or two for the wife's 9mm and her .380...I believe these will make all the difference in those calibers...

But I'll let y'all decide how well it works for you...

[res1b3uq]

http://perfectshotllc.com/ IME you have made the wise decision of using .45 ammo. You really don't need to be very particular about ammo, as long as it is reliable. The above listed website is a reloader in Ft. Worth who uses 185 gr. Remington HP bullets in his reloads. They are reliable, accurate, and are loaded for over 1000 fps. They are also inexpensive enough to use them for practice as well as carry. I shoot them in a Colt Gov., a Para P12, a Colt Commander, and a Auto Ordnance 1911 with no problems.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Call me a killjoy, but I've always believed that nobody wants to get shot with ANYTHING. I think that in the unlikely event that you would ever have to use it, if you hit your target with a 45ACP round, from any barrel, you will probably come out of it OK.

That's if the BG doesn't turn and run at the first sight of your gun.

That said, I favor Federal 230g Hydra-Shoks - for legal (not ballistic)reasons. This round is widely used by cops, making it very difficult for some bottom-feeding trial lawyer (or DA) to paint you as some kind of monster for whom, "Ordinary bullets weren't DEADLY enough."

Mas Ayoob has written a lot about this in his "Self Defense and the Law" column in Combat Handguns magazine.

[Stupid]

A hollow point that won't jam in your gun.

[stevie_d_64]

Call me a killjoy, but I've always believed that nobody wants to get shot with ANYTHING. I think that in the unlikely event that you would ever have to use it, if you hit your target with a 45ACP round, from any barrel, you will probably come out of it OK.

That's if the BG doesn't turn and run at the first sight of your gun.

That said, I favor Federal 230g Hydra-Shoks - for legal (not ballistic)reasons. This round is widely used by cops, making it very difficult for some bottom-feeding trial lawyer (or DA) to paint you as some kind of monster for whom, "Ordinary bullets weren't DEADLY enough."

Mas Ayoob has written a lot about this in his "Self Defense and the Law" column in Combat Handguns magazine.

I bought a "short box" (20 rounds) of that Federal stuff a while back for the .45 I aquired...Its what I carry in it if I feel like wearing steel instead of combat tupperwear...

I just can't throw rocks at it because I am just too confident it'll work if the situations dictates...

BTW, I just never really sweat prosecution that relies on that aspect of a defensive shooting...I've just never heard of anything in recent history that it is that big a deal, other than it being a statement of forensic fact regarding bullet type, etc etc...

I just make sure I'm a good boy in Travis County...Ronnie Earle and I are not very...How you say...hmmmmmm...I can't...He called me a dirty name one time, and all I could muster was "I know you are, but what am I?"

I think I actually stumped him on that one...

[frankie_the_yankee]

BTW, I just never really sweat prosecution that relies on that aspect of a defensive shooting...I've just never heard of anything in recent history that it is that big a deal, other than it being a statement of forensic fact regarding bullet type, etc etc...

A lot of the cases Mas works are officer involved shootings. This is where a plaintiff's attorney has a big deep pocket to go after. So anything is fair game.

Even at the criminal level, an officer involved cross racial shooting in almost any big city will bring political opportunists out of the woodwork looking for some poor beat cop's scalp.

And sadly, these days race is a factor in almost ANY situation that involves any non-white or non-Anglo person. It shouldn't be that way, but too often it is.

I've never personally heard of anyone acting in lawful self defense being fried because of the ammo they used - except in some of Ayoob's writings. Especially here in TX, as opposed to the Northeast where I mis-spent much of my life, people in general have little sympathy for violent criminals.

But I say to myself, "Why give some Ronnie Earl type anything to (mis) use against me if I don't have to?"

That, combined with the fact that the Federal load has racked up some pretty good numbers and has yet to jam in my Gold Cup Commander, is more than enough for me.