CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

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drjoker
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CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

Post by drjoker »

Hi,

I'm thinking about going to Las Vegas and getting a Nevada non-resident CCW permit. I don't want to hassle with Nazi airport nude scanners and invasive searches without a warrant from vermin who don't respect the constitution. Therefore, I'm gonna fly private jet, Blackjet to be exact. Have you guys ever flown Blackjet? Do they allow weapons? Are they Nazi (I mean Homeland Security) free?

I know that private jet passengers aren't legally required to go through security, but does Blackjet take the initiative to conduct security searches?

For example, I know that Monarch Air in Addison are posted 30.06. I've flown with them before, but never entered the building. I paid the pilot and handed the pilot all the paperwork and never entered the building. In other words, I'm looking to replace Monarch Air with another more 2nd Amendment friendly but still reasonably priced private air carrier.

Thanks,
:tiphat:
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Re: CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

Post by Ericstac »

I only have experience with the commercial airlines and then private. Never dealt with, or even heard of blackjet.. Sounds interesting and at first glance it sounds like chl is good as long as they are not posted.

Have you used blackjet before? Did you pay for the membership or were you one of the lucky freebie ones?
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Re: CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

Post by mewalke »

I was intrigued so I checked out their website and found this disclaimer at the bottom of the page:
BlackJet is not an owner or operator of aircraft. Flights are provided by professional aircraft operators who are authorized by the FAA and DOT to provide on demand air charter service. BlackJet manages the booking and quality control of the guaranteed private jet seat service for our members.
https://www.blackjet.com/

So I would assume that it would be up to the individual owner/operator of the particular charter plane you book whether or not security checks are performed etc...

And the fact that you have to request info on a membership makes me skeptical unless you plan to fly charter regularly.
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drjoker
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Re: CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

Post by drjoker »

Nah, you are not allowed to request info because you are only allowed to use their service BY INVITATION because they want to keep the rifraff out. They just emailed me a package and it says you have to leave the other passengers alone; no photos, no asking for autographs, etc.
Respect the privacy and comfort of your fellow passengers. We invite you to join the club and we can also ask you to leave.
I wrangled the invitation code from a chick I met at a party. After I become a member, I can then give out the invitation code to y'all when I meet y'all at the next DPC defensive pistol match.

They have no airport security checking Nazis because this is not an airline but a private club where celebrities and charter companies who own jets can save a couple bucks off their trips by offering up their empty seats. For example, Will Smith is one of the owners of this company. He often flies alone in his big jet and it makes no sense to pay all that dough for just one seat, so he rents out the empty seats every time he flies. Also, private jets always fly to drop you off and then fly back empty. When you're ready to return, they fly to you empty and then fly you back. This is because the operator of the jet has no hangar rented at the destination. Also, the pilot probably wants to go home to his family in the city of origin. This habit of flying a jet empty is incredibly wasteful. The flight leg where it flies empty is called an "empty leg". Blackjet uses technology to help you cobble together a round trip flight with 2 empty legs. These empty legs are already paid for by the person who originally booked the charter flight. You are just paying for the permission to fly on their jet to help make their flight a wee bit more affordable.

Just like your friend who drives you to the airport is not going to post a 30.06 sign on his car, as long as you're discreet about your 2nd A, and keep 'em concealed, you should be o.k.

Depending on the jet, a flight on a private jet is incredibly expensive. I costs $20,000 plus to fly on a jet ONE WAY. That's $40,000 per flight. However, empty leg and empty seat services like Blackjet keep it affordable. Their brochure says it costs $3500 one way from NY to LA. I estimate that a shorter trip like DFW to LV would probably be $3500 round trip. $40,000 is way too much and doesn't make financial sense. For the price of 5 trips on a jet, you could buy an almost new Cessna 172 or a very used turbofan. However, $3500 makes perfect sense. Nothing beats private air transportation. I've done it before. You drive right up to the plane and hand the valet your car keys, then hop on your flight. You can bring your dog along. Now, I've found that you can even bring your 2nd Amendment rights, too. Woo hoo!
mewalke wrote:I was intrigued so I checked out their website and found this disclaimer at the bottom of the page:
BlackJet is not an owner or operator of aircraft. Flights are provided by professional aircraft operators who are authorized by the FAA and DOT to provide on demand air charter service. BlackJet manages the booking and quality control of the guaranteed private jet seat service for our members.
https://www.blackjet.com/

So I would assume that it would be up to the individual owner/operator of the particular charter plane you book whether or not security checks are performed etc...

And the fact that you have to request info on a membership makes me skeptical unless you plan to fly charter regularly.
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Re: CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

Post by RHenriksen »

Very interesting. Probably won't be in my price range in my lifetime, but good to know just in case :tiphat:
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Keith B
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Re: CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

Post by Keith B »

drjoker wrote:Hi,

I'm thinking about going to Las Vegas and getting a Nevada non-resident CCW permit. I don't want to hassle with Nazi airport nude scanners and invasive searches without a warrant from vermin who don't respect the constitution. Therefore, I'm gonna fly private jet, Blackjet to be exact. Have you guys ever flown Blackjet? Do they allow weapons? Are they Nazi (I mean Homeland Security) free?

I know that private jet passengers aren't legally required to go through security, but does Blackjet take the initiative to conduct security searches?

For example, I know that Monarch Air in Addison are posted 30.06. I've flown with them before, but never entered the building. I paid the pilot and handed the pilot all the paperwork and never entered the building. In other words, I'm looking to replace Monarch Air with another more 2nd Amendment friendly but still reasonably priced private air carrier.

Thanks,
:tiphat:
Here's your problem. You get on the private jet here and concealed carry is OK under TX law and your CHL. The minute you land in Nevada, you are illegal as you do not have a Nevada concealed carry permit and they don't recognize TX. You're arrested and go to jail. And, NV has some weird rules, especially Lost Wages, as the sheriff of each locale issues those permits.

Best bet, fly them if you want, but you better not be carrying and have it unloaded and in your luggage per regular means of firearm transport.
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drjoker
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Re: CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

Post by drjoker »

Anybody ever fly Blackjet? I'm just hesitant to pony up $2500 annual membership fee before I even start flying without reading a review or something....

Thanks,
:tiphat:
Keith B wrote:The minute you land in Nevada, you are illegal as you do not have a Nevada concealed carry permit.
Dude, chill, remember, I said I'm getting a Nevada concealed carry permit. Yeah, I know about the Las Vegas "weird" rules/laws. For example, I have to register my gun if I'm gonna be in Las Vegas for more than 60 days. You'll get arrested if you're carrying loaded in your car in NLV even though there's state law pre-emption and they really shouldn't arrest you. You cannot have one in the chamber, but loaded magazine inserted is not defined as "loaded", etc. If you open carry or accidentally print your gun through your shirt walking out of a Costco, LVPD will shoot you on sight. Yeah, seems like California looniness has spread to Las Vegas, but not to the rest of the state, thankfully....
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Re: CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

Post by RX8er »

You will be flying under FAR 135 and as such, will be subject to the sterile area and inspection requirements. 99 times out of a 100, the crew will never perform a search. Just so you know though, once you agree to take the charter, you will go through a no fly list check using the ID you supply the carrier. All 135 operators are required to do so as part of the pre-screen process. And, they do not have to tell you they are doing it.

At some airports, TSA is there and performs searches for 91/121/135 flights. But, because this is a 135 flight you will be dealing with "Sterile Areas", and your firearm will need to be declared to the operator and placed in to checked luggage. What is a sterile area you ask?
Statute 49 CFR 1540.5 defines it "a portion of an airport defined in the airport security program that provides passengers access to boarding aircraft and to which the access generally is controlled by TSA, or by an aircraft operator under part 1544 of this chapter or a foreign air carrier under part 1546 of this chapter, through the screening of persons and property."
For you though, this is the important part since your travels will be under Carriers.
49 C.F.R. PART 1544—AIRCRAFT OPERATOR SECURITY: AIR CARRIERS AND COMMERCIAL OPERATORS
Title 49 - Transportation

§ 1544.201 Acceptance and screening of individuals and accessible property.
top
(a) Preventing or deterring the carriage of any explosive, incendiary, or deadly or dangerous weapon. Each aircraft operator must use the measures in its security program to prevent or deter the carriage of any weapon, explosive, or incendiary on or about each individual's person or accessible property before boarding an aircraft or entering a sterile area.
(b) Screening of individuals and accessible property. Except as provided in its security program, each aircraft operator must ensure that each individual entering a sterile area at each preboard screening checkpoint for which it is responsible, and all accessible property under that individual's control, are inspected for weapons, explosives, and incendiaries as provided in §1544.207.

The company I work for, we specialize in helping people make business decision about aircraft and some of this is the differences between 91/121/135. The best thing you can do is to call the carrier and see how they want you to handle travel with firearms. their Security Program will define exactly how they handle firearms. Good luck and feel free to PM me if you have any questions as this is the world I work in every day.
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Re: CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

Post by JALLEN »

Ordinarily, the folks who fly about on their own jets don't have to worry about the cost, or recouping.

NetJets is another way to go. Depending on your mission profile you can ride in anything from a small Cessna to a GV. I think there is a Marquis outfit that sells NetJet memberships in 25 hour increments. Something like that.

A former tenant of ours bought a Hawker 800 a few years ago. The next time I saw him he reported that he had flown 270 hours in a year, at a cost of $460,000, all in. I'm sure that is a lot more now.

A much cheaper option, albeit at some impairment in efficiency, is to become a pilot and fly your own plane. We had a Piper Mirage that was about like having your own jet, decidedly slower, ~230 KTAS at up to FL250 in pressurized comfort, but no slinky stewardess to come around to hand you peanuts and newspapers. But the fun factor was off the charts.
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Re: CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

Post by mewalke »

RX8er wrote:The company I work for, we specialize in helping people make business decision about aircraft and some of this is the differences between 91/121/135. The best thing you can do is to call the carrier and see how they want you to handle travel with firearms. their Security Program will define exactly how they handle firearms. Good luck and feel free to PM me if you have any questions as this is the world I work in every day.
What would qualify as a 91 or 121 flight? And if you would not be subjected to a "sterile" area for 91/121 flights, does that mean there are no FAA regulations preventing you from carrying on your person?
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Re: CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

Post by G26ster »

mewalke wrote:
RX8er wrote:The company I work for, we specialize in helping people make business decision about aircraft and some of this is the differences between 91/121/135. The best thing you can do is to call the carrier and see how they want you to handle travel with firearms. their Security Program will define exactly how they handle firearms. Good luck and feel free to PM me if you have any questions as this is the world I work in every day.
What would qualify as a 91 or 121 flight? And if you would not be subjected to a "sterile" area for 91/121 flights, does that mean there are no FAA regulations preventing you from carrying on your person?
Part 91 means no paying passengers (no flight "for compensation or hire."). Part 121 is Scheduled Carrier (Airline). Part 135 is Non-Scheduled Carrier (Air Taxi/On Demand Charter).
Last edited by G26ster on Thu May 30, 2013 12:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

Post by mewalke »

G26ster wrote:
mewalke wrote:
RX8er wrote:The company I work for, we specialize in helping people make business decision about aircraft and some of this is the differences between 91/121/135. The best thing you can do is to call the carrier and see how they want you to handle travel with firearms. their Security Program will define exactly how they handle firearms. Good luck and feel free to PM me if you have any questions as this is the world I work in every day.
What would qualify as a 91 or 121 flight? And if you would not be subjected to a "sterile" area for 91/121 flights, does that mean there are no FAA regulations preventing you from carrying on your person?
Part 91 means no paying passengers (no flight "for hire."). Part 121 is Scheduled Carrier (Airline).
:tiphat: So basically, if you are a paying passenger, there is no way around packing your firearm in your luggage. That seems consistent with what I've always heard.
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Re: CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

Post by RX8er »

drjoker wrote:Anybody ever fly Blackjet? I'm just hesitant to pony up $2500 annual membership fee before I even start flying without reading a review or something....

Thanks,
:tiphat:
I've met with them before. They are a start-up of about 1 year old. They started with about $4,000,000 from 15 investors. Most companies of their business model have failed after a couple years. I don't know that I would pony up the $2500 membership fee. They do not own any aircraft and could be called a charter broker. They are very aggressive in marketing based on the stuff I have seen from them. I believe they look for deadhead/one ways first and then charter if they cannot find one. I don't think they do not give you the discount of the deadhead if they find one. I would have them provide a charter quote and then take that quote to the market and see if it can be beat. I take it you are in the North Dallas area. You can try Million Air, Business Jet Access and Solairus as backup bids.

IMHO, the issue with Black Jet and other brokers is that you don't know who the actual charter provider is on the other end. You need to do your homework and talk to people that have actually used them. I don't care if they say the provider is Wyvern or ARGUS, these mean nothing, but is a have to have. Remember the G-III that clipped the light pole in Houston about 10 years ago? Yep, they were platinum and gold and five stars with all the auditing companies.
Last edited by RX8er on Thu May 30, 2013 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

Post by RX8er »

mewalke wrote:
RX8er wrote:The company I work for, we specialize in helping people make business decision about aircraft and some of this is the differences between 91/121/135. The best thing you can do is to call the carrier and see how they want you to handle travel with firearms. their Security Program will define exactly how they handle firearms. Good luck and feel free to PM me if you have any questions as this is the world I work in every day.
What would qualify as a 91 or 121 flight? And if you would not be subjected to a "sterile" area for 91/121 flights, does that mean there are no FAA regulations preventing you from carrying on your person?
91 is private aircraft
121 is a commercial carrier in a schedule - American Airlines & Delta
135 is on demand charter where you hire a company to fly you when and where you want

You are subject to sterile areas for 121 and 135. I am double checking now but I do not know of any 91 rule that prevents you from CCW on 91 flights. 91 encompasses everything from your own Cessna 172 that you pilot to the Gulfstream 550 owned by a company and used for company business.
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Re: CCW on Plane OK? Blackjet Anyone?

Post by RX8er »

G26ster wrote:
mewalke wrote:
RX8er wrote:The company I work for, we specialize in helping people make business decision about aircraft and some of this is the differences between 91/121/135. The best thing you can do is to call the carrier and see how they want you to handle travel with firearms. their Security Program will define exactly how they handle firearms. Good luck and feel free to PM me if you have any questions as this is the world I work in every day.
What would qualify as a 91 or 121 flight? And if you would not be subjected to a "sterile" area for 91/121 flights, does that mean there are no FAA regulations preventing you from carrying on your person?
Part 91 means no paying passengers (no flight "for compensation or hire."). Part 121 is Scheduled Carrier (Airline). Part 135 is Non-Scheduled Carrier (Air Taxi/On Demand Charter).
eggszactly. :biggrinjester:
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