budget scope for 50bmg?

[drjoker]

Old bushnell elite 3200 was good but were discontinued. Will new bushnell et1040 hold up to 50 bmg? Thanks.

[The Annoyed Man]

These are all well-made, rugged, scopes which are specifically rated to withstand .50 BMG for an older military contract: http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-MOA-Scopes-C4226.aspx. The most expensive one is a 10x42 with side focus for $399.95. The others on the page are all $299.95.

The $299.95 scopes include:

16x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope

20x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope

6x42 Tactical Riflescope

10x42 (rear focus) Tactical 30mm Riflescope

These scopes are not the same quality as their more expensive line of the house brand, but they are decent enough, have decent enough glass, and are strong as heck. If you were looking to buy a really first rate scope, I'd point you to the more expensive ones, but if you're looking for one that is in the same quality range as your old 3200, these would probably qualify.

Downside: They are all fixed power. That's not such a bad thing. I had one of their more expensive 10x scopes once, and it was a dandy.....for $800.....but it also had HD glass.

[drjoker]

thanks.

I actually prefer fixed power. There's less variables to account for so I could determine range with the mil dots, estimate wind by observing mirage/leaves on trees, then calculate in my head the holdover and drift and fire all in a split second. It would take much too long to have to use an electronic range finder and tables. By the time I look all that up, the game would've hopped away. With lower power rifles, the trajectory is not nearly as flat and wind stable so I would have to memorize a lot bigger table in order to mentally calculate the shot without a range computer, without range finder, without wind meter and without range/wind tables.

For example, most deer is taken at a distance of less than 300 yards. With a 50 bmg, the trajectory inside of 300 yds is very flat, so no turning of the scope's dials is necessary if you have a mil dot scope. All you have to do is know how many dots to shoot low or high.

The average adult deer is 5 mil dots height up to the head (not measuring antlers) at 300 yards, 7 mil dots high at 200 yards, and 14 mil dots high at 100 yards (on the scope you mentioned, it's roughly the entire bottom field of view plus all the mil dots). Therefore, if you have the scope zeroed for 200 yds, you would;
A. deer is 14 mil dots tall = aim with the dot that is one dot above the middle one.
B. deer is 7 mil dots tall = aim with the center dot.
C. deer is 5 mil dots tall = aim with the dot that is two dots below the middle one.

Texas is not very windy and the 50 bmg is not very affected by wind, so you only have to memorize 2 wind adjustments. Over 10 mph, mirage is parallel to ground and tops of trees in constant motion. Over 20 mph, mirage broken up (no mirage), difficulty walking, and larger tree trunks sway.

A. deer is 14 mil dots tall and 10+ mph winds = aim half a mil dot over in the direction the wind is blowing, 20+ mph winds = aim 1 mil dot over in the wind's direction.
B. deer is 7 mil dots tall and 10+ mph winds = aim 1 mil dot in wind's direction, 20+ mph winds = aim 2 mil dots in wind's direction
C. deer is 5 mil dots tall and 10+ mph winds = aim 2 mil dot in wind's direction, 20+ mph winds = aim 3 mil dots in wind's direction

A lot of people think I'm crazy for hunting with a 50 bmg. I think they're crazy for buying all that nonsense (laser range finder, wind meter, range computer) because having to push all those electronic buttons before taking a shot will only slow you down. By the time you've calculated everything, the deer is already gone.

A one shot 50 bmg rifle is only $2200 and adding the scope you mentioned is $300. That's only $2500. If you bought a lower power rifle, say a .308 for $1000, I'm sure you'd spend the same or more money on a laser range finder, wind meter, and range computer. If you don't do so, then you'd have to spend a lot more time memorizing a bigger table because the .308 is affected more by the wind. I like to take out the game cleanly by severing the spinal cord at the neck. That way, the trophy is preserved and the meat is left untouched. Plus, I don't have to follow a blood trail through brambles and thorn bushes (ouch!) to get that deer. It just drops where it stood.

i had a bushnell elite 3200 but it fell out of a tree stand, lens first. Bushnell no longer manufactures the 3200. The closest is the et1040. Thanks for the recommendation,

[biggyin]

Interesting post, I enjoyed the explanation of mil dot aiming. Thanks!

[The Annoyed Man]

A one shot 50 bmg rifle is only $2200 and adding the scope you mentioned is $300. That's only $2500. If you bought a lower power rifle, say a .308 for $1000, I'm sure you'd spend the same or more money on a laser range finder, wind meter, and range computer. If you don't do so, then you'd have to spend a lot more time memorizing a bigger table because the .308 is affected more by the wind. I like to take out the game cleanly by severing the spinal cord at the neck. That way, the trophy is preserved and the meat is left untouched. Plus, I don't have to follow a blood trail through brambles and thorn bushes (ouch!) to get that deer. It just drops where it stood.

I hunt deer out to 300 yards with a .308 and have none of the issues you describe, and no, the .50 BMG is not a flat shooter, not even at 300 yards either. The reason it is a long range round is simple: that big heavy bullet carries more energy/velocity further down range because of its sheer mass. But in flight, the .50 caliber bullet is affected by exactly the same gravitational force as a .308 bullet. Quoted muzzle velocities for .50 BMG typically reference its performance out of a 45" long M2 barrel. But maximum barrel length for a Bohica upper is 36", maximum barrel length for a Barret M82 is 29", and the barrel length of a McMillan Tac-50 is 29", so muzzle velocities for a civilian owned .50 BMG are likely to be lower than from an M2, and you can't really increase the powder charge too much for higher velocity or it becomes unshootable due to recoil in rifles that weigh less than the EIGHTY THREE pounds of an M2. Therefore, time to target over the distance of 300 yards is very similar between a .308 and a .50 BMG. Since time to target is very similar, the effect of gravity on the bullet will be similar. Remember that a hammer and a feather accelerate toward the earth at the same rate—32 ft per second squared. In fact, if you take into account the gravity of the falling object (anything which has mass has gravity, and the larger the object, the greater its gravity....simple planetary science teaches us this is true...), the mutual gravitational attraction of the .50 BMG bullet and the earth is even stronger than the gravitational attraction of the .308 bullet and the earth, and therefore, in theory, the heavier bullet would fall even faster. (If you don't believe this, consider that the earth still has a gravitational field despite being within the gravitational field of the sun.) The reason the bigger bullet doesn't fall faster in any measurable way is that it's own gravitational field is too small to be of practical value in the equation, when the difference in time to target is a matter of tiny fractions of a second. That's simple physics.

So all of that is to say that the .50 is not a flat shooting round because "flat shooting" is strictly a matter of velocity. The less time a bullet takes getting to a target, the "flatter" it shoots, and .50 BMG muzzle velocities are not particularly much higher when compared to .308 caliber bullets like from a .308 or a .30-06, and it is considerably less flatter shooting than either a .300 Win Mag or a .300 WSM (which also use a .308 diameter bullet). The .223 is much flatter shooting, and yet it is a much less effective bullet at long range because it loses its velocity over longer ranges. And as it slows down, it doesn't have enough mass to penetrate effectively, nor does it have enough velocity for the bullet to perform (either to upset or to expand, depending on the bullet type). The reason that a .50 is a good long range round is simply because of its mass and the fact that the enormous case contains enough powder to drive that mass over a longer distance before the bullet meets the earth. But it still has to travel in an arc to make that distance. It isn't a laser beam.

THEREFORE: what IS true is that holdover/holdunder for either caliber is minimal at 300 yards. Although I haven't hunted yet with my newest .308, it doesn't even have stadia lines on the reticle. Out to 300 yards, I don't particularly need them.

And I don't know where you got the idea that .308 users all depend on electronic geegaws to make their shots. The caliber was devised before those geegaws existed. You don't need 'em—although they can be useful if you know how to use 'em—and the simple fact is that the vast majority of hunters using non-magnum calibers smaller than .50 caliber don't even own them, so I don't know where you get off making that statement.

Final three comments.....

Not windy in Texas? Are you in the same Texas I'm in? Sure, there are days where there isn't much wind, but north Texas is prairie. Of course there is wind on most days. It doesn't have to be blowing a veritable gale for the wind to affect a bullet's flight.......and then there's west Texas and the panhandle where a lack of wind would be remarkable enough to make the news.

And.... Have you actually taken a deer with a .50 yet, particularly with this neck shot? If you haven't yet, GOOGLE this phrase "picture of .50 BMG wounds" and the top listing will be a YouTube video of a guy shooting a deer with a .50 BMG. The exit wound on the off-side is so large that it would be fair to say that most of the meat in the upper torso area was ruined. I would speculate that if you hit a deer in the neck with a .50 BMG, you would come close to tearing its head off......especially scrawny Texas deer. An elk or a moose would be different, but .50 caliber bullets have been known to nearly tear a man apart. The cartridge was originally designed for anti-materiel rather than anti-personnel use because of its enormous destructive power. It was meant to disable vehicles. Using one on deer would certainly make for a quick kill, but it seems like it would be a big waste of meat.

And, and.... There's no such thing as a cheap .50 BMG rifle, and expensive rifles deserve good glass.....particularly if you plan to use that .50 at longer ranges. The $300 scopes I mentioned in my original posts will stand up to .50 recoil, but they are not particularly as good for use at longer ranges. The $800 10X fixed with the HD glass that I mentioned would be a very good choice if you were looking for fixed power optics. Here is a picture of it on my old M1A:


And here is a link to it's web page: http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-10x42-Tactic ... 50717.aspx.