Question: Selling a Handgun to a Stranger

NguyenVanDon · Post by **NguyenVanDon** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:01 am

I am selling my uncle's Kel-Tec P11 .9mm this coming up weekend. My question is...

- How do I go beyond doing this the legal way?

- Background check?

- Age and make sure he's not showing a fake driver license showing he is over 21?

- Any documents I need to acquire for him and me to sign?

- Is there anything else I need to know?

Thanks a lot fellas...

bburgi · Post by **bburgi** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:51 am

Nothing is required except making sure he/she is 21+.

Smart thing is to check their driver's license, write down the name & address and keep a record of the gun serial # and sale date.

Mike from Texas · Post by **Mike from Texas** » Fri May 18, 2007 10:08 am

Any time I'm selling to someone I don't know I have a bill of sale filled out writing down both parties DL # name address, gun information including serial number etc....and both parties sign it.

Truthfully if you want to do it "right" do it through a gun dealer and do a transfer. that way the weapon is completely out of your name and into theirs. Have the buyer pay the small FFL transfer fee and if he doesn't agree to this method then sell it to someone else that is willing.

Of course, to play both sides of that sword, I try to buy as many privately owned firearms as I can from individuals usually with no paperwork involved.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:14 am

bburgi wrote:Nothing is required except making sure he/she is 21+.

Sorry, but this isn't true. A person who is 18-20 cannot legally buy a handgun from an FFL.

For private sales of handguns, the buyer must be at least 18 years old, a resident of Texas, and not intoxicated.

It is illegal to sell a weapon to someone you know is a felon or otherwise disqualified from owning weapons, or who you know is planning a crime. That would generally not be an issue when selling to a stranger, unless he said he was buying it to "blow away his boss" or some such thing.

See PC Â§46.06 for the entire list.

Van Don, since a Kel-Tec is designed as a concealed-carry pistol, you would be perfectly reasonable to sell only to a person with a CHL. I don't think anyone uses a Kel-Tec for bullseye.

- Jim

frankie_the_yankee · Post by **frankie_the_yankee** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:24 am

seamusTX wrote: Van Don, since a Kel-Tec is designed as a concealed-carry pistol, you would be perfectly reasonable to sell only to a person with a CHL. I don't think anyone uses a Kel-Tec for bullseye.

- Jim

In fact, that's what I would do for any private sale. My comfort level, both legal and moral, would be fully satisfied since I take having a CHL as evidence that the person is a "certified good guy".

And point of fact, if you present a CHL at a gun store, the FFL is allowed to skip the NICS instant check in this state, correct? That means that the law also regards a CHL as evidence that someone is a certified good guy.

So if I filled out a bill of sale with the DL# and CHL# or the buyer, and my own DL#, (and kept a copy for myself), I think that any question as to whether the buyer was an eligible person would be fully put to bed.

NguyenVanDon · Post by **NguyenVanDon** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:28 am

Thanks fellas for the help. Looks like I'm going to do the bill of sale. Do anyone here know where I can get that paper work at?

bburgi · Post by **bburgi** » Fri May 18, 2007 12:52 pm

seamusTX wrote:
bburgi wrote:Nothing is required except making sure he/she is 21+.
For private sales of handguns, the buyer must be at least 18 years old, a resident of Texas, and not intoxicated.

Thanks for clearing that up Jim. I had been under the impression that you could only GIVE a pistol to someone >21, FFL or not. The more you know...

RedRaider · Post by **RedRaider** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:35 pm

I have a basic form that I use when selling a handgun, especially to someone that doesn't have a CHL. PM me your email address if you'd like it and I will send it to you when I get home tonight.

Mike1951 · Post by **Mike1951** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:36 pm

Mike from Texas wrote:Truthfully if you want to do it "right" do it through a gun dealer and do a transfer. that way the weapon is completely out of your name and into theirs.

Not true!

There is no 'title' to a handgun and we don't have registration so the handgun is never in anyone's name. It is advisable to use a bill of sale in case you ever get a knock on the door if the gun is used later in a crime.

I can't fault the criteria of requiring a CHL, but running a NICS check is totally over the top.

I guess you've bought into the ridiculous 'gun show loophole' line of thought. You'll be popular with the gun control politicians.

NguyenVanDon · Post by **NguyenVanDon** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:43 pm

RedRaider wrote:I have a basic form that I use when selling a handgun, especially to someone that doesn't have a CHL. PM me your email address if you'd like it and I will send it to you when I get home tonight.

PMed sent. Thanks RedRaider!

NguyenVanDon · Post by **NguyenVanDon** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:47 pm

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:47 pm

bburgi wrote:I had been under the impression that you could only GIVE a pistol to someone >21, FFL or not. The more you know...

It's confusing because there are federal and state laws controlling who can buy and who can sell, and it's different for handguns and long guns.

For example, it is not illegal for a minor (under 18) to buy a firearm, but it is illegal to sell him one.

BTW, Texas is among the least strict states in this regard, and that accounts for a large part of our D- score from the Bradys.

- Jim

nitrogen · Post by **nitrogen** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:56 pm

I will only sell a gun to someone I know, or someone that knows someone that'll vouch for them.

Or someone with a CHL.

I've backed out of a gun sale before when I was going to sell a gun to a stranger, and he gave me a "not right" freaky feeling.

westernamerican · Post by **westernamerican** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:52 pm

Bill of Sale with DL number and CHL if he has is the only way to fly......Both buyer and seller sign and date!

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Renegade · Post by **Renegade** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:52 pm

seamusTX wrote: For example, it is not illegal for a minor (under 18) to buy a firearm, but it is illegal to sell him one.

In Texas you can sell to a minor, even a 5 year old, as long as you meet state:

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under
Subsection (a)(2) that the transfer was to a minor whose parent or
the person having legal custody of the minor had given written
permission for the sale or, if the transfer was other than a sale,
the parent or person having legal custody had given effective
consent.

and Federal law:

This subsection does not apply to--
....
(ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile's parent
or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local
law from possessing a firearm,