IRS Agents ‘Accidentally’ Discharged Guns 11 Times

[EEllis]

Nope...just saying the entire agency is another example of a government entity that doesn't do their job effectively. No doubt, like all governemnt agencies, they WILL excuse their ineptitude by blaming a lack of sufficient budget and personell...that's what government agencies do. I assess much more blame to the Medicaid bureacracy itself...again, if it is your job to process, handle and pay the claims, HOW is it possible for someone not to notice that dental clinics in ONE state are filing over 70% of all claims in the entire country? The only reason it came to light was because of investigative work by television reporters. WFAA in Dallas and a PBS station, and they have much fewer investigators than the state and federal government do.

Umm, cus if they're just in one state how would or should they know what's happening in others? You seem to be saying that since they didn't do the feds job they are somehow ineffective. Doesn't seem like a logical argument.

[The Annoyed Man]

These guys don't go after people who misfile their returns they go after criminals. Al Capone was convicted of tax fraud. Auditors don't carry guns it's the criminal investigators who do.

Sorry. There are enough ABC fed.gov agencies that pack. Tax collectors do not need to.

Anygunanywhere

And when faced with the complexities of the tax laws they would just ignore tax fraud for other crime or they would end up being exclusive to the enforcement of said laws so they basically would still be tax cops. These are not collectors, auditors, or anything but criminal investigators.

If I recall correctly, the FBI was founded for exactly that purpose: law-trained, audit-capable, men with guns.

The following is in the public domain, on a government website, so I quote a large part of it here, but there is much more, and it is worth reading:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/history/brief-history

A Brief History of the FBI

Origins (1908-1910)

The FBI originated from a force of special agents created in 1908 by Attorney General Charles Bonaparte during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt. The two men first met when they both spoke at a meeting of the Baltimore Civil Service Reform Association. Roosevelt, then Civil Service commissioner, boasted of his reforms in federal law enforcement. It was 1892, a time when law enforcement was often political rather than professional. Roosevelt spoke with pride of his insistence that Border Patrol applicants pass marksmanship tests, with the most accurate getting the jobs. Following Roosevelt on the program, Bonaparte countered, tongue in cheek, that target shooting was not the way to get the best men. "Roosevelt should have had the men shoot at each other and given the jobs to the survivors."

Roosevelt and Bonaparte both were "Progressives." They shared the conviction that efficiency and expertise, not political connections, should determine who could best serve in government. Theodore Roosevelt became President of the United States in 1901; four years later, he appointed Bonaparte to be attorney general. In 1908, Bonaparte applied that Progressive philosophy to the Department of Justice by creating a corps of special agents. It had neither a name nor an officially designated leader other than the attorney general. Yet, these former detectives and Secret Service men were the forerunners of the FBI.

Today, most Americans take for granted that our country needs a federal investigative service, but in 1908, the establishment of this kind of agency at a national level was highly controversial. The U.S. Constitution is based on "federalism:" a national government with jurisdiction over matters that crossed boundaries, like interstate commerce and foreign affairs, with all other powers reserved to the states. Through the 1800s, Americans usually looked to cities, counties, and states to fulfill most government responsibilities. However, by the 20th century, easier transportation and communications had created a climate of opinion favorable to the federal government establishing a strong investigative tradition.

The impulse among the American people toward a responsive federal government, coupled with an idealistic, reformist spirit, characterized what is known as the Progressive Era, from approximately 1900 to 1918. The Progressive generation believed that government intervention was necessary to produce justice in an industrial society. Moreover, it looked to "experts" in all phases of industry and government to produce that just society.

President Roosevelt personified Progressivism at the national level. A federal investigative force consisting of well-disciplined experts and designed to fight corruption and crime fit Roosevelt's Progressive scheme of government. Attorney General Bonaparte shared his president's Progressive philosophy. However, the Department of Justice under Bonaparte had no investigators of its own except for a few special agents who carried out specific assignments for the attorney general, and a force of examiners (trained as accountants) who reviewed the financial transactions of the federal courts. Since its beginning in 1870, the Department of Justice used funds appropriated to investigate federal crimes to hire private detectives first and later investigators from other federal agencies. (Federal crimes are those that were considered interstate or occurred on federal government reservations.)

By 1907, the Department of Justice most frequently called upon Secret Service "operatives" to conduct investigations. These men were well-trained, dedicated—and expensive. Moreover, they reported not to the attorney general, but to the chief of the Secret Service. This situation frustrated Bonaparte, who wanted complete control of investigations under his jurisdiction. Congress provided the impetus for Bonaparte to acquire his own force. On May 27, 1908, it enacted a law preventing the Department of Justice from engaging Secret Service operatives.

The following month, Attorney General Bonaparte appointed a force of special agents within the Department of Justice. Accordingly, 10 former Secret Service employees and a number of Department of Justice peonage (i.e., compulsory servitude) investigators became special agents of the Department of Justice. On July 26, 1908, Bonaparte ordered them to report to Chief Examiner Stanley W. Finch. This action is celebrated as the beginning of the FBI.

Both Attorney General Bonaparte and President Theodore Roosevelt, who completed their terms in March 1909, recommended that the force of 34 agents become a permanent part of the Department of Justice. Attorney General George Wickersham, Bonaparte's successor, named the force the Bureau of Investigation on March 16, 1909. At that time, the title of chief examiner was changed to chief of the Bureau of Investigation.

Did anybody note how the official FBI website extolls the virtues of progressivism?

The FBI already exists to investigate tax matters where armed agents are necessary, and its charter requires it to do those things when the IRS requests it. Remember when Robert Stack and Kevin Costner (Elliot Ness) beat Neville Brand and Robert De Niro (Al Capone) with Tommy Gun totin' accountants? What we have happening here with the arming of IRS agents is exactly what happened 100 years ago when progressives Teddy Roosevelt and Charles Bonaparte got into a contest of urine streams over who should be armed and who shouldn't, but both agreed that an entirely new federal agency of armed agents was necessary. Did I mention that they were progressives? Exactly WHEN has a progressive argued against the creation of another armed bureaucracy? Exactly never!

So today, the Treasury Dept.....another agency run by progressives (who abuse their power during elections).....has armed agents, including agents who were spotted by a congressman training with AR15s not too long ago......so they are not just armed for their own protection, they are being trained as "assaulters."

.....and never mind that Treasury already has it's agency of armed door-kickers: the Secret Service, who many mistakenly believe exists for the sole reason of presidential security.

Yeah.....what we need is another agency of armed door-kickers, particularly one that has been caught red handed corrupting the political process......and particularly one made up of people who routinely ignore the basic rules of gun safety.

I think I'm going to pick up a couple more lower receivers and some more ammo.

[Dadtodabone]

If I recall correctly, the FBI was founded for exactly that purpose: law-trained, audit-capable, men with guns.

Actually no. Agents of The Bureau of Investigation weren't able to officially carry weapons until June 1934.
They were investigators of federal crimes, of which there were very few back then, and those were mostly what we would call white collar crimes.
They were technicians, the creation of the FBI fingerprint files and subsequent expansion into other forms scientific investigation was their hallmark.
They were lawyers, aiding in the investigation of those white collar crimes.
They were clerks, creating, updating and researching the massive files that were created consumed more agent hours than any other task.
Expansion in federal criminal statues triggered the change. In the wake of the Lindbergh Kidnapping, which was the cause for federalization of the crime, the Kansas City Massacre, where an agent died with 3 local LEOs, and creation of the FDIC, federalizing bank robbery, Congress finally allowed the Bureau to officially arm. Just in time for Melvin Purvis to get John Dillinger in July of the same year and start the legend of the G-Man.
Rumors persist to this day that Jedgar used his penchant for blackmail for the very first time when pressuring Congress to grant his request to arm agents.

[The Annoyed Man]

Actually no.

You mean the movies lied? I am desolate; inconsolable; a smoking ruin of my former self.

We still have too many armed federal agencies.

[Dadtodabone]

Actually no.

You mean the movies lied? I am desolate; inconsolable; a smoking ruin of my former self.

We still have too many armed federal agencies.

Oh, I most heartily agree! State agencies too, Texas Board of Dental Examiners:

The Enforcement Division is responsible for the preliminary investigation of complaints. There are 14 people in the Enforcement Division: Director of Enforcement, 10 investigators and 3 administrative technicians. Three investigators are based in Austin, with two located in Houston, one located in: Dallas, Huntsville, Fort Worth and San Antonio, North Texas. The Division investigates complaints against dentists, dental hygienists, and dental laboratories. Although the Board has no jurisdiction over unlicensed persons, the Board's investigators often help local prosecutors investigate allegations of practicing dentistry without a license or operating an unregistered laboratory

These guys are armed, why, I have no idea.

[The Annoyed Man]

Actually no.

You mean the movies lied? I am desolate; inconsolable; a smoking ruin of my former self.

We still have too many armed federal agencies.

Oh, I most heartily agree! State agencies too, Texas Board of Dental Examiners:

The Enforcement Division is responsible for the preliminary investigation of complaints. There are 14 people in the Enforcement Division: Director of Enforcement, 10 investigators and 3 administrative technicians. Three investigators are based in Austin, with two located in Houston, one located in: Dallas, Huntsville, Fort Worth and San Antonio, North Texas. The Division investigates complaints against dentists, dental hygienists, and dental laboratories. Although the Board has no jurisdiction over unlicensed persons, the Board's investigators often help local prosecutors investigate allegations of practicing dentistry without a license or operating an unregistered laboratory

These guys are armed, why, I have no idea.

Found this on DrudgeReport just today: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories
Rise of the Warrior Cop
Is it time to reconsider the militarization of American policing?

A number of federal agencies also now have their own SWAT teams, including the Fish & Wildlife Service, NASA, the Consumer Products Safety Commission and the Department of the Interior. In 2011, the Department of Education's SWAT team bungled a raid on a woman who was initially reported to be under investigation for not paying her student loans, though the agency later said she was suspected of defrauding the federal student loan program.

The details of the case aside, the story generated headlines because of the revelation that the Department of Education had such a unit. None of these federal departments has responded to my requests for information about why they consider such high-powered military-style teams necessary.

REALLY? The Department of Education? SWAT teams to collect on delinquent college loans? Government is out of control.
This particular quote from the article is telling:

SWAT teams have their place, of course, but they should be saved for those relatively rare situations when police-initiated violence is the only hope to prevent the loss of life. They certainly have no place as modern-day vice squads.

[Dadtodabone]

These guys are armed, why, I have no idea.

Well, I guess this answers my question.

Warrantless Search of Texas Licensees

Rule 108.22 Access to Dental Office.
A person practicing dentistry in the State of Texas shall, upon demand by the officers, agents or
employees of the State Board of Dental Examiners acting pursuant to a sanitation complaint, grant
immediate access to the entire dental office premises to those persons making such demand.

How this power has been used in Florida:
http://www.salon.com/2013/07/07/%E2%80% ... f_control/

In August 2010, for example, a team of heavily armed Orange County, Florida, sheriff’s deputies raided several black-and Hispanic-owned barbershops in the Orlando area. More raids followed in September and October. The Orlando Sentinel reported that police held barbers and customers at gunpoint and put some in handcuffs, while they turned the shops inside out. The police raided a total of nine shops and arrested thirty-seven people.

By all appearances, these raids were drug sweeps. Shop owners told the Sentinel that police asked them where they were hiding illegal drugs and weapons. But in the end, thirty-four of the thirty-seven arrests were for “barbering without a license,” a misdemeanor for which only three people have ever served jail time in Florida.
The most disturbing aspect of the Orlando raids was that police didn’t even attempt to obtain a legal search warrant. They didn’t need to, because they conducted the raids in conjunction with the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation. Despite the guns and handcuffs, under Florida law these were licensure inspections, not criminal searches, so no warrants were necessary.

[talltex]

wow....amazing and scary....along with Tam's post about the DOE SWAT team...this continuous push for every type of agency to have a SWAT unit of some kind is out of control. I think perhaps it stems from a desire by the personnel of the agencies that want to be part of an "elite" unit and have it on their resume'. A short time ago they didn't exist except in larger metro areas...now every department wants to have one...and they are getting grant money from the government to fund them. Last month as I drove by our county Sheriff's Dept. office, there was a new vehicle sitting outside...an armored box van that had our county name and SRTU lettered on the side. This is for a small department with maybe a dozen officers. I asked the County Judge where the money came from since they have been having budget problems for the last year...obtained from Feds thru a DHS program. A refurbished unit from them.