Ramada Inn Armed Robbery

[dihappy]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fa4_1181134932&p=1

This guy gave someone with a CHL too many opportunities.

This one however is much tougher:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ece_1181068343&p=1

[stevie_d_64]

I showed both of these to a couple of new CHL'ers here...

They both had this enraged (mental) attitude based upon if they had walked up on something like this happening...

I'm pretty sure I would do my best to not be enraged, because I believe that lessens your ability to effectively deal with the established threat in these videos...

Here's a good question for those willing to engage in a discussion abotu these incidents...

"Seeing a gun, brandished in this manner, do you "reasonably" believe the imminent threat and use of unlawful deadly force has been met?"

"And do you believe that your use of deadly force is warranted to stop that threat?"

There are so many things aboout these videos that just plain amaze me as far as how unflashy the robberies actually are conducted...

But the case of the first video, one of the guys blew the whole case by using the "N" word after the guy left...(I am being extremely sarcastic here)...

Its a sad state of affairs we live in these days...And stuff like this happens every single day...

[Venus Pax]

The one with the rifle was a difficult situation.
The first one had his backed turned on them at times, and even put his gun down.

[txinvestigator]

It the first one there was only a couple of times when a customer would have known something was amiss. All a customer really would have seen was a black guy behind the counter doing something under the counter. don't think about it from the camera POV, but from the lobby POV.

With the second.......I think I would be a good witness for the police.

[stevie_d_64]

It the first one there was only a couple of times when a customer would have known something was amiss. All a customer really would have seen was a black guy behind the counter doing something under the counter. don't think about it from the camera POV, but from the lobby POV.

With the second.......I think I would be a good witness for the police.

You bet...

One thing I noticed in general...It sure is getting to be unhealthy/hazardous to be a motel clerk at these places today...

I saw that one customer turn around and wheel their nifty luggage behind them pretty quick...They sure as heck saw what was going down...And what was interesting the BeeGee didn't seem to notice that customer...

[austin]

In both cases the robbers lose situational awareness. The first case is obvious, but in the second, the robber reaches down for something and also takes his weak hand off the rifle.

The other thing is how quick these are. A minute or less.

The head coverings on both men would have reduced their peripheral vision and their hearing letting someone else get close.

If you were there or walked up on it, you would just have a few seconds to react.

[austin]

The second robber walks in with his rifle unloaded. He works the bolt right after confronting the clerk.

There is about 8 seconds when he is not switched on after he came in the hotel.

[NcongruNt]

You got me searching that site for robberies where the victims shoot back. They are far and few between the many people who are simply victimized. What amazes me most about these videos is how the witnesses just kinda stand there and watch, even when gunfire is going on. They don't hit the ground or bolt as fast and far away as they can... they just stand there.

One notable example is the following video of a hotel clerk making what looks like good tactical moves to draw without detection and make sure the customer/child and his co-worker are not in the line of fire when he defended himself and his coworker against an armed robber. What really got to me was the customer who stood there holding her child between herself and gunfire that looks to be about 3 feet away. She didn't turn to shield her child or get down on the floor to avoid being hit, she just kinda stepped aside and stood there. If the robber were to return a hasty shot or two, her child could very well have been killed, being held at center-of-mass height and directly to the left of the clerk.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=29bc8691f8

EDIT:

If that link makes your computer unhappy and play choppy like it does mine, try this one instead:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a12360ec7d

Another observation about this which is especially apparent in the first link above, is that the lady customer has her kid seated on the counter as a guy with a black mask comes in and appears to rack a shotgun. It's a pronounced sound on the first video. Only when the clerk pulls his own handgun does she make any attempt to move her child or even get out of the way. It boggles my mind.

[KBCraig]

One notable example is the following video of a hotel clerk making what looks like good tactical moves to draw without detection and make sure the customer/child and his co-worker are not in the line of fire when he defended himself and his coworker against an armed robber.

The clerk in question posted about that event on PDO. He posted right after it happened, but would only say that he'd had to draw for the first time since he started carrying, and would tell details when he was able.

As is typical on PDO, he was accused of telling made-up stories.

Weeks later, once the investigation was completed and he had been cleared, he came back and posted links to news articles about the event, including the security footage.

I believe this took place in Ohio.

[NcongruNt]

One notable example is the following video of a hotel clerk making what looks like good tactical moves to draw without detection and make sure the customer/child and his co-worker are not in the line of fire when he defended himself and his coworker against an armed robber.

The clerk in question posted about that event on PDO. He posted right after it happened, but would only say that he'd had to draw for the first time since he started carrying, and would tell details when he was able.

As is typical on PDO, he was accused of telling made-up stories.

Weeks later, once the investigation was completed and he had been cleared, he came back and posted links to news articles about the event, including the security footage.

I believe this took place in Ohio.

It looks like he got 2 or 3 good shots in there. From what I can tell from the video, it looks like the robber dropped his shotgun at the door, but I couldn't tell if he went down just outside the door or got further.

And just found on youtube, a more complete video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZrdbSJVSVM), though with some gratuitous editing, The slowmo of the shooting was good, though. To quote the description:

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Police said a desk clerk shot a man who was attempting to rob an east side motel on Saturday night.

Officers said that shortly before 9:30 p.m., a man walked into the Super 8 Motel, located at 2055 Brice Rd., showed a gun and demanded money.

Police said the desk clerk on duty then shot the alleged robber, Antoine Stephens.

Stephens, 20, was transported to Grant Medical Center and was in serious condition on Sunday morning, NBC 4 reported.

Police said he would be charged with aggravated robbery.
3 shots fired, all 3 hit the bad guy, gun was a glock 23, 40cal with 165g Gold dots

Also, I found the PDO thread: http://www.packing.org/community/genera ... 149/page1/

Wow.

[dihappy]

I posted these because i work in a hotel. I am always looking at the body language of folks when they walk in and if i work evenings, i pay particular attention when they drive up as well.

Unfortunately i cant always carry unless im dressed down (at least untill i get a more covert holster).

I know i would have definitely acted in the first video, but the second one doesnt doesnt allow much time for a draw and your pretty much at the gunmans mercy unless you just sprint out of there. Really tuff situation.

[austin]

Look at the second video closely!

In the second video there are two good times to go for it:

A. When he takes his trigger finger off the rifle to load it. He actually operates the bolt!!!

B. When he bends down to pick something up.

In #B above, if i were the clerk and unarmed I would have gone over the counter for the barrel of the rifle then decked him with my right hand.

In #A or #B above, if I were armed, its all over with. When he bends down its a gimme.

The robber is obviously not in the combat mindset!!

[John]

Lot of interesting videos on that site relating to robbery. Thanks for the link. The videos give us something to think about as to how fast many of these happen.

This one is particularly scary:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=86aae_4407

[carlson1]

I also search out some robberies. This one with the Gun rubber banned to the Bible is great!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ccc_1181134620

[neal6325]

Alright....here is an interesting one. Can you believe they do not take someone with a gun seriously initially?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b87_1180747715