Class 3 weapon license

p99guy · Post by **p99guy** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:23 am

You will still get the yearly visit as an 01 FFL.....Back in 1984 I was a 01 FFL & class 3 dealer..when you could still run it out of your home without much hassle....I had a female ATF agent show up at 9am and didnt leave until 5pm. Oh she checked my bound books in record time...then had a bout of stomach virus. When she wasnt in the bathroom, she was on my couch with a wet washcloth on her forehead.

I currently just hold a C&R, you usually dont get yearly visits with those,
and you dont get yearly visits simply because you own a NFA item instead of deal in them.

govnor · Post by **govnor** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:47 pm

p99guy wrote:You will still get the yearly visit as an 01 FFL.....Back in 1984 I was a 01 FFL & class 3 dealer..when you could still run it out of your home without much hassle....I had a female ATF agent show up at 9am and didnt leave until 5pm. Oh she checked my bound books in record time...then had a bout of stomach virus. When she wasnt in the bathroom, she was on my couch with a wet washcloth on her forehead.

I currently just hold a C&R, you usually dont get yearly visits with those,
and you dont get yearly visits simply because you own a NFA item instead of deal in them.

Heh, that's pretty weird! I'm kind of surprised she stuck around. I would want to go home at that point.

What is a C&R? Man, this class 3 dealer thing sounds almost like more trouble than it's worth, unless that's all you were doing. I'm too busy to put up with visits from the ATF. I can understand why they do it, but it sounds like a hassle.

Mike1951 · Post by **Mike1951** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:45 pm

govnor wrote:What is a C&R?

Mike1951 wrote:However, a type 03 Curios & Relics licence is cheap ($30), easily attainable and will get you dealer prices at places like Brownell's and Midway. But you are limited in the selection of firearms you can purchase to those on BATFE's list or those over 50 years old.

Here is a link to the current list of eligible arms.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/

Some of what is available right now are Mosin-Nagants, M24/47 & K98 Mausers, K-31 Swiss 7.5x55, CZ-52 pistols, Nagant revolvers.

There are many more but that should give you an idea. You maintain a bound book for your acquisitions and sales should you sell any. You are not allowed to be 'in the business' of selling firearms but you are not prevented from selling an occasional piece to refine your collection. You do not use 4473's but must record the information of the purchaser.

C&R firearms are shipped directly to you. Long guns are typically mailed and most sellers still require that handguns ship next day express.

You have NO extra privileges pertaining to non-C&R guns.

It is worthy to note that some full auto guns fall under C&R but I have neither encountered any of these or researched them.

There are many Crufflers here so if I have overlooked anything they will speak up.

govnor · Post by **govnor** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:10 pm

Ah, curious and relics. That isn't exactly what I was going for, but I would still like to have a full auto tommy gun...

p99guy · Post by **p99guy** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:39 am

So too would I but im quite short of the tariff even for one made by Auto Ordnance in the 1980's (Approx $25,000.00, and more for the older original production guns)...My neibor that is a long time class 3 has 3 Tommy guns( he takes them out occasionally and says with a grin..Did I show you these? ...oh you bad bad man, yes you did lol.)
Suppressors, and short barreled rifles are fun and somewhat cheap compared to the other NFA things you can get into....hardly anything is more fun than a suppressed ruger .22 pistol for plinking.

govnor · Post by **govnor** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:13 pm

Yeah, I've heard that real Tommy guns are very expensive. The guy I bought my AR-15 from at the gun show had a couple of Tommy's there for about $1100. I'm sure they were brand new and semi-auto at that price. They still look very cool though, and shoot real bullets.

I want to be able to buy a suppressor for my P22, but other than the highly expensive machine guns, there isn't a lot more that I want. I would love a Glock 18, but can't even get that with a class 3 license!

PAR · Post by **PAR** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:01 pm

I set my trust using Quickenwill maker, which is an A/B trust so that my wife was added. As P99guy mentions this is fairly easy and by far the best way to go.

Full-auto is still too rich for my blood at this point so I've been sticking to silencers. I have a TAC 65 for our 22 and just completed the form 4 for my second an EVO-9 for my Beretta, which I should have in a few weeks. Strange thing, once you start shooting with them, it's so enjoyable that you find it hard to take the can off.

I'm in Rockwall so maybe we can hook-up and I'll let you try my TAC on your P22.

govnor · Post by **govnor** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:09 pm

PAR wrote:I set my trust using Quickenwill maker, which is an A/B trust so that my wife was added. As P99guy mentions this is fairly easy and by far the best way to go.

Full-auto is still too rich for my blood at this point so I've been sticking to silencers. I have a TAC 65 for our 22 and just completed the form 4 for my second an EVO-9 for my Beretta, which I should have in a few weeks. Strange thing, once you start shooting with them, it's so enjoyable that you find it hard to take the can off.

I was reading that in some countries like Finland and Norway, a silencer costs about $40 and can be bought by anyone. They encourage their use to preserve hearing. Over here there's too many gang bangers to do something like that.

I was checking out legal zoom and it costs about $250 to set up the trust. Did you pay less or more with quicken?

Also, if you buy, let's say a suppressor, put it under the trust and then do you still have to pay the $200 transfer tax? Or is that included in the price of the item? I mean...I hate to pay an extra two hundred bucks every time I buy something, but if that's the way it is, then I'll just have to buy less.

PAR · Post by **PAR** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:22 pm

govnor wrote:
PAR wrote:I set my trust using Quickenwill maker, which is an A/B trust so that my wife was added. As P99guy mentions this is fairly easy and by far the best way to go.

Full-auto is still too rich for my blood at this point so I've been sticking to silencers. I have a TAC 65 for our 22 and just completed the form 4 for my second an EVO-9 for my Beretta, which I should have in a few weeks. Strange thing, once you start shooting with them, it's so enjoyable that you find it hard to take the can off.
I was reading that in some countries like Finland and Norway, a silencer costs about $40 and can be bought by anyone. They encourage their use to preserve hearing. Over here there's too many gang bangers to do something like that.

I was checking out legal zoom and it costs about $250 to set up the trust. Did you pay less or more with quicken?

Also, if you buy, let's say a suppressor, put it under the trust and then do you still have to pay the $200 transfer tax? Or is that included in the price of the item? I mean...I hate to pay an extra two hundred bucks every time I buy something, but if that's the way it is, then I'll just have to buy less.

True about Finland and Norway, also France and England.

As for Quicken, under $50 at any Best Buy or Compusa. Easy to use with step by step instructions.

As for the $200 it's for each item regardless if you do as an individual, corporation or as a trust -- ATF still wants their money.

You first have to find the item you want and a local dealer (I know a few with great deals below MSRP in our area). Order the item, if not in stock, they will help you fill out the form 4. Pay for the item, then send in your certificate of trust, compliance form, 2 copies of the form 4 and $200. Then wait about four weeks.

Yes, it does sound like a lot when you add an outdated $200 fee to the mix. Heck by the time you're done, you could have more into the can than the gun. But once you shoot one, you'll never go back.

Rugrash · Post by **Rugrash** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:27 pm

A friend of mine in VA just got thru doing his Revocable Living Trust for a Noveske SBR. He also used Quicken Will Maker Pro. From what I've heard from him as well as some of the previous replies to this thread seem to reinforce that this method is a lot easier than dealing with a corporation. Avoiding CLEO signoff with a Trust is a biggie too as well as not having to pay whatever corporation fees/taxes there are. I've heard from my dealer that when you do have a class III weapon or "accessory" like a silencer, that you need to have a copy of that trust with you when you're in possession of said item. Also, anyone that might come into "possession" of the item should be in the trust too. Say you lay that Gemtech on the table and go out on an errand and the wife is home when the ATF comes by for a visit, she could be arrested since it would be in her possession and she's not in the trust. Sounds scary but this example is pretty far fetched. It could be more possible if you're at a range though and you let someone shoot your weapon.

Anybody have any other ideas on this?

Thanks,

Rug

PAR · Post by **PAR** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:39 pm

Rugrash wrote:A friend of mine in VA just got thru doing his Revocable Living Trust for a Noveske SBR. He also used Quicken Will Maker Pro. From what I've heard from him as well as some of the previous replies to this thread seem to reinforce that this method is a lot easier than dealing with a corporation. Avoiding CLEO signoff with a Trust is a biggie too as well as not having to pay whatever corporation fees/taxes there are. I've heard from my dealer that when you do have a class III weapon or "accessory" like a silencer, that you need to have a copy of that trust with you when you're in possession of said item. Also, anyone that might come into "possession" of the item should be in the trust too. Say you lay that Gemtech on the table and go out on an errand and the wife is home when the ATF comes by for a visit, she could be arrested since it would be in her possession and she's not in the trust. Sounds scary but this example is pretty far fetched. It could be more possible if you're at a range though and you let someone shoot your weapon.

Anybody have any other ideas on this?

Thanks,

Rug

If you're a collector, the ATF isn't going to spend their limited resources making a visit - unless there is a serious complaint against you. On the other hand if you're a dealer, then you can pretty well plan on a visit.

As for possession, no need to carry the trust - ATF doesn't require it. In fact, they recommend that you make a copy of the form 4 with the tax stamp to carry and lock the original away in a safe place. Even then there's no requirement to carry the stamp but it does help address the LEO's concern should you be stopped for something else.

As for other's being in possession, that's why I did the A/B trust so my wife can take possession any time she wants.