EDC of a fixed-blade knife in the pocket

[DocV]

I just leave this wicked piece of cutting power at home 'cause I don't want to take the ride for carrying an illegal Bowie knife:

[Superman]

...
(C) dagger including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
Armendariz v. State, 396 S.W.2d 132 (Tex. Crim. App. 1965) A knife slightly over seven
inches in length when open, equipped with a double guard, blade that locks open and is
sharpened on both sides of blade for over an inch meets the definition of a dagger.
...

I'm very interested in this portion. So a "dagger" is over seven inches? Anything under that I can carry...even if both sides of the blade are sharpened? Of it not, then I can have a dagger with a sharpened blade on the back side as long as the back side is sharp for only 1 inch or less?

I've been looking at some cold steel push daggers, but I gave up on them because of this part of the law. I've only heard that "dagger" means that both sides of the blade is sharp. This could change everything

[jbarn]

...
(C) dagger including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
Armendariz v. State, 396 S.W.2d 132 (Tex. Crim. App. 1965) A knife slightly over seven
inches in length when open, equipped with a double guard, blade that locks open and is
sharpened on both sides of blade for over an inch meets the definition of a dagger.
...

I'm very interested in this portion. So a "dagger" is over seven inches? Anything under that I can carry...even if both sides of the blade are sharpened? Of it not, then I can have a dagger with a sharpened blade on the back side as long as the back side is sharp for only 1 inch or less?

I've been looking at some cold steel push daggers, but I gave up on them because of this part of the law. I've only heard that "dagger" means that both sides of the blade is sharp. This could change everything

Remember, that any knife with a blade over 5 1/2 inches in length is an illegal knife. And, that case describes a particular knife in a particular criminal case.

[Superman]

...
(C) dagger including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
Armendariz v. State, 396 S.W.2d 132 (Tex. Crim. App. 1965) A knife slightly over seven
inches in length when open, equipped with a double guard, blade that locks open and is
sharpened on both sides of blade for over an inch meets the definition of a dagger.
...

I'm very interested in this portion. So a "dagger" is over seven inches? Anything under that I can carry...even if both sides of the blade are sharpened? Of it not, then I can have a dagger with a sharpened blade on the back side as long as the back side is sharp for only 1 inch or less?

I've been looking at some cold steel push daggers, but I gave up on them because of this part of the law. I've only heard that "dagger" means that both sides of the blade is sharp. This could change everything

Remember, that any knife with a blade over 5 1/2 inches in length is an illegal knife. And, that case describes a particular knife in a particular criminal case.

Ahhh...I see it now. That definition was of a specific blade that meets the dagger definition, it was not the dagger definition itself.

[equin]

That's an interesting citation but practically speaking I think most people would say a KA-BAR is "not commonly known as a pocketknife" even on the rare occasion it is carried in a pocket.

The definitions come from case law.. In this case, Mireles and Hernandez..

here is case law on the definitions in Texas.. as usual, in different places.. and different times.

“Illegal Knife” means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one half inches;
Rainer v. State, 763 S.W.2d 615 (Tex. App.-Eastland 1989, pet. ref’d) To determine
length, measure entire length of blade past handle, not just the sharpened portion of the
blade. Same result in McMurrough v. State, 995 S.W.2d 944 (Tex. App.-Ft. Worth 1999).
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
Albert v. State, 659 S.W.2d 41 (Tex. App.-Houston [14th Dist.] 1983, pet. ref’d) Martial
arts throwing star qualifies as “a hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being
thrown”.
(C) dagger including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
Armendariz v. State, 396 S.W.2d 132 (Tex. Crim. App. 1965) A knife slightly over seven
inches in length when open, equipped with a double guard, blade that locks open and is
sharpened on both sides of blade for over an inch meets the definition of a dagger.
(D) bowie knife;
Mireles v. State, 192 S.W. 241 (Tex. Crim. App. 1917) A knife in a scabbard with a blade
nine inches long and a handle four or five inches long described as a butcher knife was
embraced in the term “bowie knife” as defined by the Penal Code.
_________________

This is interesting. However, I'm still confused as to what constitutes a bowie knife under today's Texas Penal Code. I don't have a copy of the Mireles case, but at least based on the very brief summary above, it appears the length and measurements of the butcher knife were factors the court took into consideration to find it meets the definition of a "bowie" knife. But under today's TX Penal Code, those measurements would classify it as an illegal knife anyway because it's longer than 5.5." I'm still wondering about a Ka-Bar knife, or any kind of fixed blade with a cross guard that is less than 5.5" and whether it meets the definition of a bowie knife. I'm no criminal lawyer or knife law expert, but I'm guessing the length of a "bowie" knife doesn't matter, even if the blade is less than 5.5", otherwise the "bowie knife" provision in the penal code would be moot and useless if part of what meets the requirements of a bowie knife includes a blade longer than 5.5," right?

Oh, and although I'm a lawyer, none of what I say should be taken as legal advice. Heck, some of you non-lawyers know more about gun and knife laws than I even knew existed!

[TBJK]

Yep definition of a Bowie knife is about as clear as mud. In that definition any simple knife could be considered a "Bowie Knife".

[Murindo]

A good place for concealed carry is inside the waist using an "S" hook. My favorite carry is a Crawford Dragon. The "S" hook carry allows IWB with your shirt tucked over the knife.

[K.Mooneyham]

That's an interesting citation but practically speaking I think most people would say a KA-BAR is "not commonly known as a pocketknife" even on the rare occasion it is carried in a pocket.

The definitions come from case law.. In this case, Mireles and Hernandez..

here is case law on the definitions in Texas.. as usual, in different places.. and different times.

“Illegal Knife” means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one half inches;
Rainer v. State, 763 S.W.2d 615 (Tex. App.-Eastland 1989, pet. ref’d) To determine
length, measure entire length of blade past handle, not just the sharpened portion of the
blade. Same result in McMurrough v. State, 995 S.W.2d 944 (Tex. App.-Ft. Worth 1999).
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
Albert v. State, 659 S.W.2d 41 (Tex. App.-Houston [14th Dist.] 1983, pet. ref’d) Martial
arts throwing star qualifies as “a hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being
thrown”.
(C) dagger including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
Armendariz v. State, 396 S.W.2d 132 (Tex. Crim. App. 1965) A knife slightly over seven
inches in length when open, equipped with a double guard, blade that locks open and is
sharpened on both sides of blade for over an inch meets the definition of a dagger.
(D) bowie knife;
Mireles v. State, 192 S.W. 241 (Tex. Crim. App. 1917) A knife in a scabbard with a blade
nine inches long and a handle four or five inches long described as a butcher knife was
embraced in the term “bowie knife” as defined by the Penal Code.
_________________

This is interesting. However, I'm still confused as to what constitutes a bowie knife under today's Texas Penal Code. I don't have a copy of the Mireles case, but at least based on the very brief summary above, it appears the length and measurements of the butcher knife were factors the court took into consideration to find it meets the definition of a "bowie" knife. But under today's TX Penal Code, those measurements would classify it as an illegal knife anyway because it's longer than 5.5." I'm still wondering about a Ka-Bar knife, or any kind of fixed blade with a cross guard that is less than 5.5" and whether it meets the definition of a bowie knife. I'm no criminal lawyer or knife law expert, but I'm guessing the length of a "bowie" knife doesn't matter, even if the blade is less than 5.5", otherwise the "bowie knife" provision in the penal code would be moot and useless if part of what meets the requirements of a bowie knife includes a blade longer than 5.5," right?

Oh, and although I'm a lawyer, none of what I say should be taken as legal advice. Heck, some of you non-lawyers know more about gun and knife laws than I even knew existed!

My thoughts have run in the same direction as yours on this subject. I believe it to be kind of useless to put a phrase like "bowie knife" in the Penal Code, and then not define it. And if the legislature of the time was working off the idea that pretty much everyone would just know what makes a knife a "bowie knife", then I believe that is simply no longer the case. I know what I consider a Bowie knife, but my idea isn't likely to be the one in an arresting officer's head if it came to that.