Relaoding: Reloaed Cartridge Failures

[Beiruty]

From my first batch of 45 ACP.
2 out of 50rds. Good strike on the primer, failure to shoot not squib.
From my first batch of 223.
Jam due to brass catcher and not the rd fired, when I cleared the jam and wanted to charge a new rd, releasing the bolt resulted in the bullet was pushed back into the case and powder went all over place and it is good I catached this one other wise I would have a critical failure and squib in a rifle

Reloading is fun and can save you a cent or two but you have to have eyes like a hawk on reloading cartridge failures.

[ddstuder]

Yes you have to pay close attention when firing your reloads.

That said, I have only had two failures to fire. One was a 38 Special, the other a .223.

In both cases when I pulled the projectile, I found that I did not put powder in them. I got lucky because both projectiles stayed in the case.

I'm surprised you had failure on your 45ACP. What primer did you use? Must have been Tula or Wolf.

[Beiruty]

On the .45s, did they fire on a second try?

Also on the .45, I do not know how you are priming, but if you have case lube or oil on your fingers and touch the primers,that can render them inert.

On the .223, possibly the round was partially out of the magazine when you closed the bolt, and caught the round between the bolt and the chamber edge. I cannot think of another way the bullet would get pressed back into the case.

For 45 ACP and 223 I am using LEE hand primer. I could have touched the primer to flip them up. Also, it could have been loaded with no powder. The bullet stayed seated and did not go into the barrel. I threw away both rds. Next time, I should keep them and investigate the problem at home. I did not tried to fire a second time, it was good firing pin strike.

As for your observation for 223, you are correct. Maybe a bit more factory crimp is in order.

[rotor]

The brand of primer used? What did the primer indentation look like? In my opinion from hard to soft are CCI, Winchester, Remington=Federal. Don't know about Tula. Was not able to tell from your post, did the primer fire? If you had a good indentation in the primer and it didn't fire you have bad primers. A poor indentation means something wrong with the firearm or you didn't seat the primer all the way in. Did it fire on 2nd attempt? As far as the 223 round, I use a Lee factory crimp die. Take an inertia bullet puller and see how hard it is to pull a bullet after you have given a final crimp. Pops right out then not enough crimp and or too much neck expansion before seating bullet. Try also to see if you can manually push the bullet into the case. I am a relative newbie to reloading and nobody seems to really tell you exactly how much crimp is right so I use the above. I also use a case gauge for everything, Lyman or Wilson. Everything must be perfect.

[Beiruty]

The brand of primer used? What did the primer indentation look like? In my opinion from hard to soft are CCI, Winchester, Remington=Federal. Don't know about Tula. Was not able to tell from your post, did the primer fire? If you had a good indentation in the primer and it didn't fire you have bad primers. A poor indentation means something wrong with the firearm or you didn't seat the primer all the way in. Did it fire on 2nd attempt? As far as the 223 round, I use a Lee factory crimp die. Take an inertia bullet puller and see how hard it is to pull a bullet after you have given a final crimp. Pops right out then not enough crimp and or too much neck expansion before seating bullet. Try also to see if you can manually push the bullet into the case. I am a relative newbie to reloading and nobody seems to really tell you exactly how much crimp is right so I use the above. I also use a case gauge for everything, Lyman or Wilson. Everything must be perfect.

I use CCI for 223 (small rifle) and 45 ACP (large pistol). For 30-06, I had luck to find large rifle Sellier & Bellot.

[MoJo]

The failure in your .45 sounds like a classic high primer strike. The primer is not seated all the way in the pocket and the force of the firing pin is absorbed by driving the primer deeper into the primer pocket. These will usually fire on a second attempt. When you have a failure in a handload keep the round and take it apart to see what the problem is.

A primer by itself will usually have enough energy to push the bullet part way down the barrel. I keep a "squib rod" in my range bag to remove the stuck bullet . It's a 8" length of 5/16" dowel rod with a 9mm or .380 case crimped or glued onto the end that is struck with a hammer, etc. to prevent the end splitting. 5/16" is the largest dowel that will fit a 9mm bore and it's strong enough to handle .45.

[Beiruty]

How critical is cleaning primer pocket after the sonic bath for 45 ACP or 223?

[Beiruty]

The failure in your .45 sounds like a classic high primer strike. The primer is not seated all the way in the pocket and the force of the firing pin is absorbed by driving the primer deeper into the primer pocket. These will usually fire on a second attempt. When you have a failure in a handload keep the round and take it apart to see what the problem is.

A primer by itself will usually have enough energy to push the bullet part way down the barrel. I keep a "squib rod" in my range bag to remove the stuck bullet . It's a 8" length of 5/16" dowel rod with a 9mm or .380 case crimped or glued onto the end that is struck with a hammer, etc. to prevent the end splitting. 5/16" is the largest dowel that will fit a 9mm bore and it's strong enough to handle .45.

[Jumping Frog]

How critical is cleaning primer pocket after the sonic bath for 45 ACP or 223?

Not at all. Actually, useless. There have been literally hundreds of millions of .45 and .223 rounds handloaded without cleaning primer pockets and they have fired reliably for decades. Heck, ultrasonic cleaners weren't even in widespread use until the last few years.

I agree the .45 sounds like the classic high primer strike. That is why I mentioned in your other thread where you had pictures of these first 50 rounds that I thought the primers looked too high. Review what I said there about running your fingertip over the case end and feeling the indentation where the primer is seated.

What happens on a high primer strike is the primer is not seated fully into the pocket. The first primer strike simply pushes the primer all the way in without firing the primer. If you shoot the round a second time, since the primer is now fully seated, the second firing pin strike can now ignite the primer. See, a firing pin indentation is not what makes the primer ignite anyway. Seating the primer fully also cause the internal anvil to "pre-crush" part of the priming compound making it ready to ignite, and then the firing pin strike pushes the priming compound against the anvil that is anchored on the bottom of the primer pocket. The firing pin alone doesn't suffice, it must work against the fully seated anvil.

You should make sure the primer is seated correctly by inspecting every round you make.

Your .223 failure, where the bullet pushed into the case and spilled all the powder appears to be insufficient neck tension. What is your neck OD after sizing and then after seating? Notice I said "neck tension", not "crimping".

[mr surveyor]

How critical is cleaning primer pocket after the sonic bath for 45 ACP or 223?

Not at all. Actually, useless. There have been literally hundreds of millions of .45 and .223 rounds handloaded without cleaning primer pockets and they have fired reliably for decades. Heck, ultrasonic cleaners weren't even in widespread use until the last few years.

I agree the .45 sounds like the classic high primer strike. That is why I mentioned in your other thread where you had pictures of these first 50 rounds that I thought the primers looked too high. Review what I said there about running your fingertip over the case end and feeling the indentation where the primer is seated.

What happens on a high primer strike is the primer is not seated fully into the pocket. The first primer strike simply pushes the primer all the way in without firing the primer. If you shoot the round a second time, since the primer is now fully seated, the second firing pin strike can now ignite the primer. See, a firing pin indentation is not what makes the primer ignite anyway. Seating the primer fully also cause the internal anvil to "pre-crush" part of the priming compound making it ready to ignite, and then the firing pin strike pushes the priming compound against the anvil that is anchored on the bottom of the primer pocket. The firing pin alone doesn't suffice, it must work against the fully seated anvil.

You should make sure the primer is seated correctly by inspecting every round you make.

Your .223 failure, where the bullet pushed into the case and spilled all the powder appears to be insufficient neck tension. What is your neck OD after sizing and then after seating? Notice I said "neck tension", not "crimping".

that's the best description of the workings of a primer I have ever read!

[Beiruty]

Thanks a lot Jumping frog.
This is how we learn, if we have issues we ask here and expert like you would provide great insight. Never stop learning is what engineers do!