Interesting COE Possibility?

[chasfm11]

This afternoon, for the first time that I can ever remember, I saw a red SUV getting pulled over Southbound on the road crossing Grapevine Dam. I was heading North and was surprised to see a white pickup, other wise devoid of markings, with a "Park Ranger" sign on the door. As I passed, the driver of the pickup jumped on in a Corp of Engineer's uniform. Although I'm pretty careful with my speed across the dam, the first thing that flashed across my mind was "that could be me." My fertile mind took it from there.

What would I have done if had been me that was stopped? My expectation is that I should have shown both my CHL and my DL but then what? If I only showed my DL then what? I doubt seriously that the park ranger has access to TCIC. Is that road COE property or not? My thought process had "bad day" written all over it.

Grapevine isn't alone on this. Lake Whitney has a similar setup where the road actually splits part of the COE lake. There may be others. I think Lake Ray Roberts also has a road across it's dam though I'm not sure that there is much around there except COE property

Thoughts?

[carlson1]

The Park Police from Texas State Parks are LEO. They are State Police and will right you a citation. If you go to Cedar Hill State Park just south of I-20 those folks enforce the speed limits (radar) and do not mind writing you a citation.

[chasfm11]

The Park Police from Texas State Parks are LEO. They are State Police and will right you a citation. If you go to Cedar Hill State Park just south of I-20 those folks enforce the speed limits (radar) and do not mind writing you a citation.

This wasn't Texas Parks and Wildlife. I recognize those uniforms from my many encounters for "safety checks" while my boat was on the water. I was an officer in the Grapevine Sailing Club for a number of years and dealt with the Corps a number of times. I recognize those uniforms, too. This was definitely a COE park ranger.

[couzin]

I was dual hatted while at USACE - the other duty being a USACE Ranger. The structure (dam) road is USACE property and you can be pulled over by a Ranger (and of course local LEO, State and Federal LEO. Corps Rangers have citation authority. Saying that - it is not the same as the arrest and pursuit authority that commissioned law enforcement have. We could only write you a citation (ticket) that you have to pay or appear in a Federal district court for - can't search, seize, pursue, or arrest. Rangers rely on local LEO and other LEOs for that duty. We have both radios that have codes for local, State, and any Federal LEO nearby as well as phone communication. Both DL validity (10-27), registration (10-28) and wants/warrants (10-29) are available to a Ranger. Rangers do have the ability to request identification. If you refuse, it is another citation on top of whatever was going to be provided and, a LEO will be called to arrest you until you comply.

Having said all that - a USACE Ranger is NOT stupid, gung ho, nor blind. Those roads are traveled thoroughfares and they know that some folks are just crossing the structure because it is the danged road from somewhere to somewhere else. None of the rangers I know would go non-linear over finding a CHL holder on one of these roads. If you were speeding (crossing the lines, stopped and taking photos, whatever) - just hand over your DL and CHL (just like with a LEO, let them know you have a weapon on you), act contrite , and likely you are on your way with nothing more than "slow it down", etc. However, the regulations have not changed yet - sooo... weapons other than legal hunting are still not allowed on USACE fee lands and reservoirs. Just stay out of the parks and off the water - or at least, learn how to hide your weapons real well. Rangers are not afraid of CHL holders - its yahoos we find out in far areas of the woods at 3AM cooking meth and the couples drunken fights in the campgrounds that scare the poo out of us. Rangers operate alone, backup is usually far away - and the only thing we were (legally) given was pepper spray and the ability to break bones and tear off ears...

[chasfm11]

I was dual hatted while at USACE - the other duty being a USACE Ranger. The structure (dam) road is USACE property and you can be pulled over by a Ranger (and of course local LEO, State and Federal LEO. Corps Rangers have citation authority. Saying that - it is not the same as the arrest and pursuit authority that commissioned law enforcement have. We could only write you a citation (ticket) that you have to pay or appear in a Federal district court for - can't search, seize, pursue, or arrest. Rangers rely on local LEO and other LEOs for that duty. We have both radios that have codes for local, State, and any Federal LEO nearby as well as phone communication. Both DL validity (10-27), registration (10-28) and wants/warrants (10-29) are available to a Ranger. Rangers do have the ability to request identification. If you refuse, it is another citation on top of whatever was going to be provided and, a LEO will be called to arrest you until you comply.

Having said all that - a USACE Ranger is NOT stupid, gung ho, nor blind. Those roads are traveled thoroughfares and they know that some folks are just crossing the structure because it is the danged road from somewhere to somewhere else. None of the rangers I know would go non-linear over finding a CHL holder on one of these roads. If you were speeding (crossing the lines, stopped and taking photos, whatever) - just hand over your DL and CHL (just like with a LEO, let them know you have a weapon on you), act contrite , and likely you are on your way with nothing more than "slow it down", etc. However, the regulations have not changed yet - sooo... weapons other than legal hunting are still not allowed on USACE fee lands and reservoirs. Just stay out of the parks and off the water - or at least, learn how to hide your weapons real well. Rangers are not afraid of CHL holders - its yahoos we find out in far areas of the woods at 3AM cooking meth and the couples drunken fights in the campgrounds that scare the poo out of us. Rangers operate alone, backup is usually far away - and the only thing we were (legally) given was pepper spray and the ability to break bones and tear off ears...

Thanks for the detailed description. A few years ago, I wouldn't have worried. Today, the list of Federal groups being turned into political weapons seems to be growing exponentially.

Just like I've sworn off Sprouts because of their 30.06 signs, I've sworn off all USACE facilities of any kind. No need to worry about me every showing up in a park or a campground like I used to do unless the pending judgement against the no guns policy at USACE is upheld. But the dams and the roads across them seemed like a circumstance that is hard to avoid. Also for the record, I've been in Texas more than two decades and haven't managed to get a citation in spite of regularly driving through some of the worst speed trap areas in North Texas. When I do drive across Grapevine Dam, I occasionally get someone who isn't happy about my law abiding status for that mile and half. I'm not anxious to pay any group because I couldn't keep the lead out of my foot.