Acquiring front sight during draw for immediate sighted fire

[yerasimos]

I have been watching Charles' thread on point shooting with great interest.

In parallel with his thread, and as a courtesy to avoid thread-jacking, I have a question regarding conventional sighted fire. It may sound very elementary, but I think it may be helpful to discuss and clarify for everyone.

In rereading Cooper's treatment of the subject, he seems to advocate drawing the pistol to full extension/high ready so the pistol sits slightly below one's target, maintaining target focus, then bringing up the pistol slightly to superimpose the sight alignment upon the target, shifting focus from the target to the front sight. (See Cooper's To Ride, Shoot Straight and Speak the Truth, chapter titled "The Firing Stroke".)

I also recently obtained some instructional DVDs on shooting (the Burner Series, mid-1990s vintage) and Jerry "the Burner" Barnhart seems to advocate keeping the front sight indexed in the middle of one's vision from the middle to the end of the drawstroke, while maintaining target focus, then at the end shifting focus to a point roughly between the target and the front sight to complete the sight picture.

What are some other methods for acquiring sight alignment and sight picture? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each method? Any comments on Cooper's or Barnhart's methods? I tried to summarize them as concisely as I could as they relate to the front sight, sight alignment and sight picture.

FYI, I know that Cooper died last year, and that other competitive shooters have come onto the scene since Barnhart produced the videos that I have, who may have developed techniques of their own.

Thanks in advance.

[txinvestigator]

I have some thoughts on this (imagine that ;) ), but being a visual learner and instructor I just have a tough time putting it into words.

I need my hands!!!!!

[yerasimos]

Just to clarify my initial post, I see some definite differences between Cooper's method and Barnhart's.

As I read and understand Cooper's 6-point presentation, the vision remains on the target while the pistol moves forward, stops just below center of visual focus, then rises slightly into the center of visual focus, with the focus coming back from the target to the front sight. There is a final, slight, deliberate vertical move of the pistol from just below center of view, into the center of view. The front sight is never really "caught" until the final stage of presentation.

Looking at my notes from Barnhart's Burner volume 2, Jerry also stresses a target focus while the handgun is moving into position, however, the tip of the front sight only is in the center of the field of view, partly occluding view of the target while the pistol moves forward, muzzle pointing at an upward angle. At full extension, the rear sight passively "rocks up" into position, while the visual focus shifts to a plane somewhere between the target and the front sight. That rocking motion is not deliberate, it simply tends to happen that way according to Jerry. In Jerry's method, the front sight is always in the field of view whenever the pistol is around shoulder level, but there is never a crisp, exclusive focus upon it.

A final point: Barnhart's technique is intended for competition purposes, whereas Cooper's is not. I see some merit in Barnhart's method as far as acquiring/maintaining sight alignment, whereas Cooper's seems to depend upon the Weaver stance, muscle memory, isometric tension, etc, to deliver perfect sight alignment in front of the target and complete the (flash) sight picture. Here, I am deliberately leaving out trigger manipulation and other details unrelated to sight alignment and sight picture.

Any thoughtful input or suggestions related to the fine points of front sight acquisition, sight alignment and sight picture would be greatly appreciated.

[TxD]

Any thoughtful input or suggestions related to the fine points of front sight acquisition, sight alignment and sight picture would be greatly appreciated.

Like TXI stated above visuals are better, but try this.

Imagine a string running from your dominant eye to the desired point
of bullet impact on the target.
Without moving your head, thus moving the string, and with focus
on the desired point of impact, draw your weapon to a high ready position.
Continue target focus while moving the front sight forward and up onto the string.
As you continue to push the sight along the string, shift your focus to
the top of the front sight during the last 6-8 inches of travel and break the shot when the minimum amount of sight alignment is obtained for that particular shot. Longer shots/ tighter shots require more precise alignment than closer shots.
The complete process is one continuous motion.
It is however beneficial to break the process into steps for learning.

Target focus is actually looking at a point on the target you wish to hit
and not just looking at the entire target.
Sight focus is looking at the top edge of the center post and not the back or sides. With this focus, the eye/brain computer will automatically center everything if you don't give it conflicting info by eyeballing the entire
front/rear sight system.
And last, like our golfing friends, do not move your head, as this also
provides conflicting info for the computer.

Hope this helps.

[stevie_d_64]

I think this breaks down to a simple concept...Like Txi says, you need yer hands to really describe or demonstrate some things that might solve the original posts concerns...

So what really is the issue here...We already know what we are going to shoot...Or is it more trying to figure out how we are going to accomplish that???

I think we already know, considering how much we practice, and that our personal methods of accomplishing that act are pretty much ingrained in the membrane, right???

The mechanics and muscle memory of drawing, visualizing and follow-through are pretty much there...

The key I see is the concern about introducing something (your firearm) into the "sightline", that you are in total control of...I don't think that really effects the whole process, you already know its coming, and its not a big surprise...

If being in a stressfire situation, you'd be in good company if your first round misses the mark...We are obviously concerned about collateral damages, but thats why we train, practice and strive to be proficient enough to "reduce" those risks...

I can't think of any other way to improve on any marksmanship concerns other than to practice, and get good constructive observances of your technique...

I also agree that reading the books is a good way to get in your mind, ways to do "stuff"...But having someone to shoot with that knows what your trying to do, and see if they can describe what they are observing to you (objectively) is really the way to get better at this hobby...

Of course if your go out alone, I can guarantee you that you will be the most accurate marksman on the planet...

Thats why whenever I get a chance to shoot with someone else...I always see and learn something, and try to apply that little trick to help me get better at this stuff...

There's a whole gaggle of folks here on this website that I've shot with, and my proficiency has grown tremendously over the last few years, and I attribute that directly to them...

But thats just my opinion...

[austin]

At Gunsite they stressed:

1. Presentation ( recognizing a threat, seeking cover or moving off the line of attack if able, drawing on the threat )
2. Flash Sight Picture ( making sure the sights are aligned )
3. Trigger Press
4. Shoot until the threat is gone

#3 is 90% of the reason for a poor hit.


When I am shooting my best, my focus is not on the target.

1. Draw and Get a good grip with both hands while looking at the target.
2. Bring the pistol up in line with my eyes and the target.
3. Lock onto the rear sight.
4. Move eyes to the front sight.
5. Ensure alignment on target and lock wrists.
6. Finger to trigger and G E N T L Y pull.
7. Release trigger to feel sear reset while I check alignment.
8. G E N T L Y pull.


When its done right and smoothly, its very very fast.

[stevie_d_64]

When its done right and smoothly, its very very fast.