Glaser and other pre-frag rounds

LedJedi · Post by **LedJedi** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:38 am

i've been doing some research lately on Glazer and the general concept of pre-frag rounds.

I'm curious what you guys have to say on the topic..

please feel free to direct me to another thread if one is started

These are the general type of rounds i'm talking about:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/73109-5561-207.html

Articles about pre frag rounds:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... ngible.htm

Another article that I find quite compelling:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs5.htm

Box-o-truth comparison test:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot23.htm

The basic gyst seems to indicate that you're lucky if the pre-frag rounds get 4 inches of penetration. That doesn't seem like quite enough to me.

That last link is really the most compelling for me. I'm thinking about switching to another self defense round like Hydrashock, but I'm concerned about over-penetration especially since I live in an apartment complex. Ideas? Suggestions/Comments.

MoJo · Post by **MoJo** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:02 am

Pre-fragmented ammo is a lot like the other "Super powerful depleted nytrillium fangs-o-death instant vaporization" ammo - - - more hype than substance. The ammunition was developed to minimize ricochet in places like court houses with hard marble walls etc. Somewhere along the way they got the rep of being ultra lethal, they're not.

With any well designed hollow point over penetration is minimized it is all a game of give and take you have to decide what is more important to you, stopping an aggressor or not shooting through a wall. I want him to stop - - - a shotgun loaded with #4 buck will do an adequate job of stopping without having to worry about shooting through the next two apartments.

LedJedi · Post by **LedJedi** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:09 am

* hides his box of Super powerful depleted nytrillium fangs-o-death instant vaporization behind his back.

No wonder i never could hit nuthin with those.

stroo · Post by **stroo** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:12 am

Its a trade off. Do you want to avoid penetrating walls as much as possible or do you want penetration in the BG?

I carry a glaser in the pipe of my 45 backed with a magazine of Corbon DPX figuring to aviod penetration in my house walls if I miss the first shot but that if the first shot doesn't discourage a BG, the next shots better penetrate into him far enough to do real damage.

solaritx · Post by **solaritx** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:58 pm

First let me say that a .22 that hits is better than a 44 mag that misses.

Second: I believe one of the gun rules states something about knowing what is behind your target.

third: What does Clint carry in his .45 at Thunder? Ball

Fourth: What does most of the police use? Hollowpoints. What would the military use if allowed? Hollowpoints.

Prefrag is like shoulder holsters, really only good for a few very specific applications. For the majority of applications, good old hollowpoints or ball are the best answer for the situation.

Hype and the age old discussion of stopping power, et al does one thing: it sells bullets. If the majority use something, it usually is for a reason.....it works.

JMO
Garry N
(all carry weapons full of Hydroshoks)

G.C.Montgomery · Post by **G.C.Montgomery** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:12 am

Solaritix hit on something worth noting...There are people in professions that require them to potentially poke holes in bad people doing bad things in a variety of environments including residential settings where over penetration is a concern. Having said that, the vast majority of these people are carrying plain old jacketed-hollowpoint ammunition. Given how risk-averse most police administrators are and how much they worry about civil liability, you'd think if Glaser Safety Slugs, Aguila IQ and other ammunition was so great that police administrators would require officers to carry it.

AV8R · Post by **AV8R** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:35 am

The FAMS carries Speer Gold Dots in .357 Sig, off-the-shelf, whatever that's worth.. They do not, however, concern themselves with liability issues.

srothstein · Post by **srothstein** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:07 am

solaritx wrote:Fourth: What does most of the police use? Hollowpoints. What would the military use if allowed? Hollowpoints.

While I am not sure about the military part, I will point out that police carry many different rounds for many different reasons. Politics, cost, and liability are probably the biggest three reasons for any choice. Most of the pre-fragmented rounds are very expensive when compared to the hollow points and FMJ.

And I may be showing my age, but I recall when NYPD issued .38 spl with round nose lead bullets and would fire an officer who was caught with either plus P or hollowpoint ammo. Even made them carry the .38 round when they were issued .357 revolvers.

The only reason I know of to carry the same round as the police is to avoid the image issue at a trial if you get involved in a shooting. And, I am not sure that this is really a valid point either.

stevie_d_64 · Post by **stevie_d_64** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:39 am

LedJedi wrote:* hides his box of Super powerful depleted nytrillium fangs-o-death instant vaporization behind his back.

No wonder i never could hit nuthin with those.

Its more like...

"Can't touch this!"

Seriously though...The only magic bullet I have found that has proven some interesting results (however expensive the test was...Heck I won 3 boxes from them)...

The guys in San Antonio that make the "RBCD" stuff, put out an interesting product...

They have a website thats not too hard to find...

Accuracy is nominal, energy onto the target is phenominal, penetration claims are verifiable (by me) as minimal...(Old denim jacket material, t-shirt, over a block of duckseal) 7 yard shot...

This all just depends on how comfortable you are in trying something different...The design is similar to Corbon, but this is a Texas company, and I always try to keep my money and business for things like this in my home state...

You may occasionally see a "dealer" set up a booth/table at most gunshows in this state...So they are not too too hard to find...

Just my opinion...

G.C.Montgomery · Post by **G.C.Montgomery** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:58 pm

A former friend was selling RBCD ammo in the early days of the product line. We too saw a lot of really interesting results using far from scientific testing methods. But I'm no longer sold on the claims put out by RBCD or that former friend regarding that ammunition. RBCD ammo has been the subject of much discussion over the last few years among members of the firearms industry, professional and recreational shooters alike. Because of the ten year old daughter rule, I'm not going to post direct links to the forums where it's been discussed by folks with verifiable credentials but if you do a search on WarriorTalk, Tactical Forums or even The High Road, you'll find a number of threads that are worth reading.