AZ: Mom blames meth, not neighbor, in son's death

[VMI77]

If you are referencing the same security guard situation I'm thinking of, he didn't shoot anyone. He stopped a situation, the guy got his bike back and everyone except the guilty walked away.

When one party is dominating another and has a weapon, intervening is not a bad thing. There have been many on here that has specifically said they would not intervene if it didn't involve them or there own.

I addressed a specific situation and you are discussing generalities. Why quote me and try to make an argument then?

I'm not referring to that security guard situation, but the one I described in a previous comment, where a security guard came upon a woman screaming for help and struggling over a knife and shot the man that was on top of her who he took to be her attacker. He killed a plain clothed cop who was defending himself against the woman who had attacked him with a knife. Things are not always what they seem.

Sorry for quoting you.

[mojo84]

If you are referencing the same security guard situation I'm thinking of, he didn't shoot anyone. He stopped a situation, the guy got his bike back and everyone except the guilty walked away.

When one party is dominating another and has a weapon, intervening is not a bad thing. There have been many on here that has specifically said they would not intervene if it didn't involve them or there own.

I addressed a specific situation and you are discussing generalities. Why quote me and try to make an argument then?

I'm not referring to that security guard situation, but the one I described in a previous comment, where a security guard came upon a woman screaming for help and struggling over a knife and shot the man that was on top of her who he took to be her attacker. He killed a plain clothed cop who was defending himself against the woman who had attacked him with a knife. Things are not always what they seem.

Sorry for quoting you.

I see now.

In fact there have been similar real-life cases where what looked very much like one thing turned out to be very much another thing. I read about one incident where a security guard came across a man straddling a woman, struggling over a knife, the woman yelling "rape, help me." The security guard shot the man and saved the woman. Trouble was, the man was an undercover or off-duty cop and the woman was a nut case who had attacked HIM with a knife. The security guard was certain he was doing the right thing....turned out he wasn't.

In this case, the guy should have have done a better job of assessing the situation before he started shooting. By no means am I or anyone else on here that I've seen advocating someone indiscriminately pulling their gun shooting. He could and should have better assessed the situation so he could take appropriate action whether that be intervening or standing by or calling the police.

Like I said, there is always risk in anything we do. We have to assess the situation and mitigate the risk as best we can. Just taking the stance of "if it ain't me or mine, I am just going to move on and maybe call 911", is an unfortunate position many seem to be taking nowadays.

[OldCurlyWolf]

Sad story. The neighbor is a hero. This story makes me think about all the times members of this forum have stated that if its not them or their family in danger they would call 911 and be a good witness. This approach would have been a death sentence for this woman. Thankfully there are still people around like this neighbor. I know if someone were attacking my loved one I would want someone to do more than call 911.
I salute this Good Samaritan and pray that he is blessed and the Lord brings him peace knowing he had no choice but to take a life.

[jmra]

I think if I see a guy slice someone's throat and pull at her esophagus, I'll take my chances on them turning against me or any potential legal issues that may arise.

There is never a guarantee in life. Sometimes doing the right thing involves some risk. I don't think I could live with myself knowing I could have helped save someone and didn't because I was scared of potential repercussions.

Some times things aren't what they seem but the vast majority of the time if it looks like a duck it's a duck.

[jmra]

Sad story. The neighbor is a hero. This story makes me think about all the times members of this forum have stated that if its not them or their family in danger they would call 911 and be a good witness. This approach would have been a death sentence for this woman. Thankfully there are still people around like this neighbor. I know if someone were attacking my loved one I would want someone to do more than call 911.
I salute this Good Samaritan and pray that he is blessed and the Lord brings him peace knowing he had no choice but to take a life.

I think the operative word here is "neighbor." So presumably, the shooter knew who was who and what was what. He likely wasn't walking into a situation cold and probably knew the mother somewhat and the son's history. That's different than seeing two strangers fighting in a parking lot somewhere. Ambiguity is the enemy of intervention when the choice is life, death, or prison.

A friend of my father tried to stop a man from beating a woman in a parking lot. They BOTH turned on him and he ended up the worse for it. We don't have law enforcement powers or immunity so we need to be very careful about putting ourselves into a situation that we don't fully understand.

According to what I read the injured woman did not know the neighbor who shot her son.

I didn't read the article but that only slightly changes the situation. I've had neighbors I didn't know, but still knew they were my neighbors, and still knew something about their situation. Enough to know, for instance, that a son was a problem kid and someone to watch out for. He might only have known that the kid was a meth head and not even known he was the woman's son, but he wouldn't have been making a cold read on the situation. To the shooter may not even have known or recognized the woman and simply read the situation as meth head attacking a woman, still a different situation than complete strangers tussling in a parking lot. Or maybe he didn't know either, didn't know anything about the situation, and was just lucky what he did turned out to be the right thing.

If you're making a cold read you're taking big chances. Take the same scenario, but it's a young man who appears to be attacking an older woman in a parking lot. You call out to him, stop, or I'll shoot. He doesn't stop, you shoot. Then it turns out that the woman is the assailant....she has a gun below your sight level and the man was trying to stop her from shooting him. All I'm saying is that if you interfere in a situation you know nothing about it may be more ambiguous than it appears and you're risking serious injury, death, or prison.

In fact there have been similar real-life cases where what looked very much like one thing turned out to be very much another thing. I read about one incident where a security guard came across a man straddling a woman, struggling over a knife, the woman yelling "rape, help me." The security guard shot the man and saved the woman. Trouble was, the man was an undercover or off-duty cop and the woman was a nut case who had attacked HIM with a knife. The security guard was certain he was doing the right thing....turned out he wasn't.

I'm not arguing that one should never intervene to help another that isn't a family member or loved one. I am saying if you decide to make a choice that is essentially life and death for someone else and for yourself, you need to be sure you really understand what's happening and who's who, and not merely assume that the scene before you is exactly what it looks like.

I refuse to live my life based on "what ifs" and the extreme exceptions. In the real world ducks are ducks. On the very rare occasion a duck isn't a duck a keen observer usually isn't fooled.
As for your last statement, Of course I don't recommend someone pull a gun and start shooting every time they hear a commotion. Of course anyone carrying a gun (even if they aren't carrying a gun) should be aware of their surrondings and make sure they have properly accessed a situation before taking action, this is simply common sense. But I'm pretty sure that if a guy is trying to rip a woman's throat out and I've told him several times to stop or I'll shoot, I haven't misread the situation.

[rbwhatever1]

Some times things aren't what they seem but the vast majority of the time if it looks like a duck it's a duck.

This is a fact. Not a lot of headlines out there about people defending the wrong person. I'm sure it has happened but not enough for me to ever call 911 and do nothing. I'm glad this neighbor helped. Great American taking care of his fellow citizen and doing the right thing.