Rights of CHL Holder With Family Member on Parole

[LazGunX]

Hello to all my fellow CHL holders. I just found this site and this is my first post. It's great to know there is a resource we can come to to share and learn information regarding issues important to us.

Now for my question:

I have a fairly young son who was convicted of a 3rd degree felony, and is soon to be released back into my and my wife's home and supervision on parole.

I had a personal interview with a lady from the Texas Parole Department and she advised me that my son was not in any way allowed to be in the same vehicle with any hunting weapon or associated ammunition, or that he would be in violation of his parole and subject to being sent to prison for up to 10 years.

At this point I asked her about the legal ramifications of me being a licensed CHL holder and how that affected my son if he was riding in the vehicle with me while I was carrying.

I advised her that I had a legal CHL permit issued by the State of Texas, explained to her that my weapon was legally under my control at all times, and that it was no different than him riding in a police vehicle with armed officers.

She acted completely confused and kept saying that the law says that a felon cannot be in the same area as a weapon or ammunition period, but admitted that she really did not know.

Do any of you out there know the answer to this? As we all know, I am held responsible for being in possession and control of my weapon at all times. I simply do not believe that the law would not allow a person (even a felon under one's supervision) to be in the same vehicle or proximity of a licensed CHL holder.

If any of you out there have sound and valid knowledge of this situation I would greatly appreciate your response.

Thanks.

[carlson1]

Welcome to the Forum LazGunX. Someone will post the law for you soon, but I do not think your son has a problem as long as he does not have direct access to your gun.

[dave_in_austin]

If the lady from the parole office gave you accurate information, then your son (or I guess any other person in a similar situation) could not ride any public transportation either as there is a good chance that someone would be armed in that vehicle. I suspect that she really is confused.

[LazGunX]

Thanks Dave, my point exactly. She could somehow just not comprehend that concept though. I would still like someone to provide me a solid legal answer though if any of you have experience with this situation.

[carlson1]

LazGunX check your Private Messages.

[RPBrown]

First, welcome to the forum. You are right that is a great resourse for information.

This has been addresed here before and I will try to find the link.

I have a brother that was paroled a few years ago with the same problem. He was living in my parents home and they both have a CHL. His first PO said no way, no how. They brought me all of their guns to keep for them. This PO was only a temporary assignment though and when he got his permanant PO the questioned was asked again. This time it was different. He stated "that as long as my brother did not have access to any weapon, it was okay.The guns all had to be locked in a safe and when they were carrying, they had to retain control" (duh). We had him put this in writing and a copy was made for each family member with a CHL to carry when he was with them (just in case). Now, the PO was a bit reluctant t put it in writing, but he did.

[stevie_d_64]

This is the standard line given by Parole Officers to family members...

Not only WILL they say that the parolee is in jeopardy, but the person(s) allowing access to firearms will also be in jeopardy for allowing that access...This is a deliberate scare tactic.

Obviously this is completely wrong, and there is not much you can do to fix it, other than to have that P.O. corrected in this assumption...

There's just not a lot of people (like us) that put P.O.'s in this type of situation where their "instructions" are rightfully questioned...

And you WILL face a very hard, uphill battle to make your point! It all depends on how much you are willing to fight it...The parole systems will not lift a leg to help resolve this because they believe they are in the right to deny you your right...And they will not comply until they are told to do so by their governing authority...(this is key to the whole issue)

And questioning this will bring a whole mess of scrutiny upon every single person in that house...So my advice is to make sure that the person living with you while on parole is made absolutely aware that they had better stay on schedule and with the program...Or other arrangements can be made...

I have always believed that family will obviously treat you better than the rest of the world will...In this case some people will be out to trip you up, get you back into the correctional system, because when you get right down to it, it is a money making machine!

[KBCraig]

She acted completely confused and kept saying that the law says that a felon cannot be in the same area as a weapon or ammunition period, but admitted that she really did not know.

She wasn't acting.

Welcome to the forum!

[txinvestigator]

Texas Penal Code
§ 46.04. UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF FIREARM. (a) A person
who has been convicted of a felony commits an offense if he
possesses a firearm:
(1) after conviction and before the fifth anniversary
of the person's release from confinement following conviction of
the felony or the person's release from supervision under community
supervision, parole, or mandatory supervision, whichever date is
later; or
(2) after the period described by Subdivision (1), at
any location other than the premises at which the person lives.

Of course his release papers will have additional stipulations. Be sure to read them.

[srothstein]

Of course, TXI beat me to it with both points I wanted to make. The law on convicted felons says he cannot be in possession. If you are there with a weapon on your hip, he is clearly not in possession of it. If the firearm is in a room and both of you are present, he is not in possession of it, but it is not as clear and could be argued. If the firearm is in a room and you are not there, he is in possession of it, but if he cannot get access to it (such as in a safe he does not have the key to) then it is generally ignored.

And TXI was also right with a very important point. The law is for people convicted and deals with another criminal case. The parole papers will have conditions on them that are part of a voluntary agreement. He must abide by all of those conditions or his parole can be revoked. This is not the same as a new criminal case and only involves a hearing before a judge for the revocation. It is not even a new trial. Be sure you read the papers carefully and get any vague areas clarified in writing in advance of a problem.

[LazGunX]

Thanks very much to both Stephan and TXI for the information. I have been a licensed CHL holder for years and always place the utmost importance on "keeping my weapon under my control."

Stephan, you kind of addressed one gray area that I had been thinking about, in that periodically I do carry my weapon in a zippered gun bag if I'm traveling long distances in my vehicle and don't want to carry it on my person.

I am certainly not going to place a lock on my mobile carry bag because that would render quick access virtually impossible. On the other hand, even though I believe I'm within my rights to carry that way, even with my son onboard, I don't know if it's worth the risk of having to "prove" that I'm within my rights and he hasn't violated his parole. It's just a shame that I'm having to sacrafice MY rights because of the lack of understanding of the law on actual law enforcement and judicial entities.

Like I told another member in a personal response he sent to me, I can just tell this thing is really going to be a slippery area. One of our biggest challenges (and I mean this in no disrespectful way) is that from what I have observed so far, the Parole Board and other "System Officials" are not accustomed to dealing with upstanding, middle to upper middle class people with a solid family, good jobs, character, etc., so they are all inclined to react as if they're talking or working with the lowest common denominator.

Sorry for the long post, just lots to process and hash out on this issue.

~Rick (LazGunX)

[ELB]

Hmmm. I hate to make this even more complicated, but I wonder if there are federal laws that also have to be taken into account. I hate even worse to say this, but it might be a good idea to consult a criminal defense lawyer who is versed in this area, e.g. parole, state, and federal law (if there is such a lawyer). It is a shame that one cannot read the laws of one's own country and figure out what they mean, but such is the case. For your sake and your son's, consulting a lawyer ($$) is what I would do if in your shoes.

elb

[KBCraig]

Rick, just remember: concealed means concealed. Both from your son, and from his PO.

The law generally rules that "constructive possession" is the same as actual possession. That means that if he can access your guns (you've left them unlocked, he knows where the key is, you leave one sitting on the table while you step into the other room, etc.), then it's the same as physically carrying the gun.

Kevin

[LazGunX]

Thanks Kevin, you bring up another valid point, but one that is still in that gray area.

As I stated before, if I am driving my vehicle, have my weapon in a gun bag situated in the middle of my truck console, I am within my legal rights as stated by the State of Texas as having that weapon under my control, even though anyone (my wife, my kids, a rider, etc., could technically reach over and grab that bag)

Bottom line is, I really don't think any of us know how this scenario would play out in the court of law, even with a top notch attorney's advice, and that is total bull. I think the judicial system is so subjective in the way it views these type situations that none of us, even a lawyer, could tell me what is the best course of action.

All I know is that I earned the right to legally carry by being a good citizen and will not have my rights as a law abiding CHL holder stripped as though I was a home owner in Louisiana after Katrina. And I will not sit idly by and let these morons tell me my son is in jeopardy of going back to prison for something that is full above board and within the parameters of my state's laws.

Sorry about the tone of this post, but I do not suffer the inconsistencies of our justice system lightly.

Rick

[stevie_d_64]

All I know is that I earned the right to legally carry by being a good citizen and will not have my rights as a law abiding CHL holder stripped as though I was a home owner in Louisiana after Katrina. And I will not sit idly by and let these morons tell me my son is in jeopardy of going back to prison for something that is full above board and within the parameters of my state's laws.

Sorry about the tone of this post, but I do not suffer the inconsistencies of our justice system lightly.

Rick

You're not alone in your tone...