to live like a hobbit...

[LedJedi]

The wife and I have had much discussion over the last few years of "the dream home".

Some few years ago we saw a special on TV about underground and otherwise earth-covered housing. We were both instantly sold on energy conservation enabled by such a design. Several designs boast single or low double digit heating/cooling bills monthly.

I'm also sold on the security offered by such a design. You're essentially living in a bunker.

To counter obvious flooding concerns we plan on building on top of a mound/hill so that the structure is above the area flood line. From there we would build up earth around the sides and on top of the roof planning on about 15 ft of earth on all sides and 5 ft on top.

Yet more recently it's come to my attention that building using international shipping containers as modular blocks is both economical and simple due to the pre-fabricated nature of shipping containers and the standards/tolerances in their construction. I've studied a few of the designs being deployed using containers and tried to adapt them to make best use of floor space as well as modifying designs for earth-covered construction.

The graphic below is the design I've come up with thus far. I'd love your opinions on it, especially from the security aspects. You'll notice that i've set up a jeff cooper style entrance and would also be considering adding a decorative front gate as a sally port style entrance and have located windows on either side of the entrance for full viewing of "guests".

The back door is essentially locked/bolted heavily at all times and is for emergency exit only.

The sheet metal floors and ceilings would be supported by metal I beams wielded into place.

The entire outside of the structure would be coated in spray concrete and sealed to prevent moisture and corrosion. The inside may get a coating of something as well to prevent corrosion.

I was also considering modifying the back bedroom with another utility room against the back door. We could put a vent on that door and use the room for a generator when needed. Obviously would need some sound proofing.

I'm also concerned about the weight 5 ft of earth would put on the roof so a central support column may be in order. As it is I plan on orienting the house entrances east/west to harvest light through skylights. The roof would be angled.

My image as it currently stands is http://www.sangstergraphicdesign.com/earthcovered.gif

Input, observations are certainly welcome.

[jbirds1210]

General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion

Underground shooting range included?

[LedJedi]

General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion

Underground shooting range included?

I figured that would be implied :)

Actually, I hadn't considered that, but not a bad idea. Lead poisoning would be a major concern as would ventilation, noise concerns and over-penetration.

Perhaps turning the back of the house into a range wouldn't be a bad idea. We're already looking at 15 ft of earth. I would still want a backstop to capture and re-use the lead.

didn't see any other place to post this. Feel free to move it if you see a more appropriate spot for it.

[jbirds1210]

You could just shoot at the 59 range for a few weeks and build a lead tolearance

Neat plan.

[Venus Pax]

That's a neat set-up.
I can't add anything, as I've only heard of these homes on PBS.

[stevie_d_64]

There is a house (that is like this design) that we pass on the way up through East Texas from Houston...

I wish I could nail down exactly where it is because you can see it right off the road on the east side (heading north)...

I want to say it may be south of Frankston, Texas...I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for it on the next trip up there...

But its covered all over except for the front of the house which is nothing more than a wall with doors and windows...

All of that has been observed at 80mph...(Just kidding about the 80mph thing...Or am I?)

I think its a neat concept, except for the moisture/seepage issue...I don't think you can, on a residential scale, seal up a structure sufficiently enough for a long period of time before you eventually get the "dank musties"...

It may take 10 (or more) years, but I believe it is an inevitability...

Texas is much too wet to do this in my opinion...Now you might be able to get away with this out west building into rock, and this has been done to a high degree of success...

[Wildscar]

General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion

Underground shooting range included?

I figured that would be implied :)

Actually, I hadn't considered that, but not a bad idea. Lead poisoning would be a major concern as would ventilation, noise concerns and over-penetration.

Perhaps turning the back of the house into a range wouldn't be a bad idea. We're already looking at 15 ft of earth. I would still want a backstop to capture and re-use the lead.

didn't see any other place to post this. Feel free to move it if you see a more appropriate spot for it.

Since it going to be an underground house. Have the construction company make a back stop out of the earth that is dispalced from making your house. Place it above ground on top of your house per-say. set up a gazebo type thing to shoot from and problem solved.

/~~~~~~\
[.. ..]________________________(o)__/`\


Also there is a Home like that here in Dallas also. Kinda interesteing. Specially where its located.

[pbandjelly]

long as you don't have kids in school, should be fine.




aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand ILoveGuns

[razoraggie]

You could just shoot at the 59 range for a few weeks and build a lead tolearance

Birds....ROFL

[Bob Wolff]

My sister-in-law and husband built a house into the side of a hill in Virgina.
Excavated into hillside, poured "walls", built out and then recovered with excavated earth.
They heat there home with a single wood stove all winter.
In summer a nice cool temp without AC. Humidity can be a problem without proper design.

Bob

[jhutto]

Rotate the exterior rooms clockwise and share a bathroom between two bedrooms. The single bedroom bath could serve as the master, and the Laundry would be in a better location.

[LedJedi]

Rotate the exterior rooms clockwise and share a bathroom between two bedrooms. The single bedroom bath could serve as the master, and the Laundry would be in a better location.

Hey! great idea!
Made some additional modifications. And even has a bullet trap (good idea jbirds) :)

I also adjusted the entrance. I didn't like the idea of the windows going to bedrooms or a bathroom. It's not ideal, but not bad either.

http://www.sangstergraphicdesign.com/earthcovered2.gif

[HankB]

If building from scratch, consider including a hidden room . . . and hidden exit.

I remember reading about earth-sheltered homes a while back . . . energy savings depend a LOT on your climate, and there are some serious long-term moisture considerations to take into account.

"Super-insulated" homes - with a foot or so of wall insulation, and twice that in the attic, along with good windows, efficient HVAC, etc., were thought to be more cost-effective.

[NcongruNt]

I think this is a cool idea.

Honestly, the first thing that came to mind when you mentioned using shipping containers was this:

In a home defense situation, instead of worrying about wall penetration, you'd have to worry about ricochet instead. Just a thought. If the walls were lined with a low-density concrete or block concrete filled with sand or mortar instead, that would probably eliminate such a concern. The downside would be that these materials would be likely to gather moisture. perhaps metal studs and drywall with some sort of moisture-resistant barrier material between would do the trick.

The other thing that comes to mind is that you'd be living in a windowless bunker. Perhaps outfitting it with reinforced skylights with some sort of very thick plexi or ballistic glass on the surface would be an idea. The other concern with this is that you have no view of what's going on outside your home. CCTV cameras could address this, I suppose.

I looked at prices, and it seems that new containers run about $4000 a piece or so (40'L x 8'W x 9.5' high). That's a whole lot cheaper than I thought, and seems like a great idea for saving on structural building costs. The downside is that you'd have a lot of money to pay in the cost of welding and customizing the doorways. You'd probably have to build crawlspaces to run the electrical/plumbing/security/network/cctv cabling and so forth so that they're serviceable for maintenance. I couldn't find the existence of stainless steel shipping containers, as rust would likely be a long-term concern. You could probably address this by putting a thick coating of some sort on all of the steel once everything is welded in place (probably have to do the bottoms before they're set in a foundation) and before everything is buried.

Also, cell phone reception is going to be nil in such a building... something to consider.

Touching on something mentioned earlier, you could put a firing line on top, and place berms out back at a 100y and 200y for rifle shooting from atop the house. If you wanted to shoot pistols instead you could simply have positions set up out back closer to the 100y berm.

This is a cool idea, and if you do it I wanna see the results!

[LedJedi]

In a home defense situation, instead of worrying about wall penetration, you'd have to worry about ricochet instead.

The other thing that comes to mind is that you'd be living in a windowless bunker. Perhaps outfitting it with reinforced skylights with some sort of very thick plexi or ballistic glass on the surface would be an idea. The other concern with this is that you have no view of what's going on outside your home. CCTV cameras could address this, I suppose.

I looked at prices, and it seems that new containers run about $4000 a piece or so (40'L x 8'W x 9.5' high). That's a whole lot cheaper than I thought, and seems like a great idea for saving on structural building costs. The downside is that you'd have a lot of money to pay in the cost of welding and customizing the doorways. You'd probably have to build crawlspaces to run the electrical/plumbing/security/network/cctv cabling and so forth so that they're serviceable for maintenance. I couldn't find the existence of stainless steel shipping containers, as rust would likely be a long-term concern. You could probably address this by putting a thick coating of some sort on all of the steel once everything is welded in place (probably have to do the bottoms before they're set in a foundation) and before everything is buried.

Also, cell phone reception is going to be nil in such a building... something to consider.

This is a cool idea, and if you do it I wanna see the results!

Most earth-sheltered houses are either built the standard way and then earth-covered (which is costly) or if you have a specialty house built you can have them built in domes out of rebar and concrete. That's also very expensive (as much as 80% MORE than standard construction methods). When I heard about folks using the shipping containers I figured there had to be a way to use the cost savings of surplus pre-fab containers and still get the benefits of earth-sheltered homes.

Good point about ricochet. I hadn't thought of that either. We haven't decided what to do exactly about a drywall type of situation but we don't really want bare steel walls either. That will require further thought.

A few good dehumidifiers will certainly come in handy. I do wonder how much excess moisture will be a problem though. The house will be earth covered but will be built on a mound and the walls will have to be sealed very well to even make it feasible. It shouldn't be any more damp than most houses today.

This also brings up another point. Because the structure is basically steel and spray concrete the structure itself is basically immune to fire. The objects inside aren't but the structure should survive any common fire. Since it will be built on a 5+ foot mound and WELL above the water table I don't see flooding as an issue anymore so than any other home in the area. You should always investigate the flood plane before building anyway. I figure both of these factors should save quite a bit on insurance as well.

Rust is my primary concern too, both inside and out. The outside and bottoms would have to be coated. I was figuring spray on concrete followed by some sort of thick rodent resistant plastic (gophers trying to dig through, etc) would be ideal. The inside would need to be coated as well.

I had thought about the plumbing/wiring and that was a big concern till I saw how one builder was doing it. Most of these structures are set down on a concrete foundation that lifts the boxes above the the actual foundation by a few feet to run wiring and plumbing (think stacking lincon logs). That gives you a good crawl space between the floor and the foundation. My chubby butt wouldn't fit down there so i'd have to make sure my plumber was skinny :) Obviously a hatch of some kind would have to be installed to access that area. It could also double as storage like an under-attic if moisture wasn't a problem.

There is a HUGE surplus of these containers, especially in coastal areas. It costs more to ship them back than the units are worth. They go for as little as $500/each in those areas. Basically we're importing WAY more than we're exporting. I wouldn't buy new when I can get slightly used at 10% of cost. Some major cities are already starting to use these containers for housing projects. If they're sealed properly it's a great idea. I just wanted to marry that to the efficiency and security of earth-sheltered housing.

I'm told a crane and a single wielder can set up a 2-container home in a day so long as the foundation is already laid. The only thing left would be fitting for plumbing and wiring.

I like the idea of the CCTV too. Nice touch.

I'm right there with you on the reinforced skylights. That's why i was orienting the design east/west to match the sun. I figured I'd put the range on the evening side of the house since i wouldn't be inclined much to use it in the mornings.

Not sure i care much about cell phone reception. Was planning on having a land line buried to the house.

I think one of the coolest prospects here is if you want to add a 2nd floor. you just stack another set of containers on top and cut holes. They're designed to do that already.

I have given a lot of consideration to hyper-insulated homes honestly. My boss is building one here in Houston in fact. He actually had to install an air exchange system in the house because the seal was so good. The problem is those houses are still vulnerable to 1) the decay of time 2) storms (tornadoes, hurricanes, etc) 3) fire. Building a raised yet earth sheltered home out of sealed steel and concrete materials should address all of those concerns.

I rather like the security of living in a bunker too, especially when "they" come to take my guns. i also plan on having the roof lined with tin foil so I won't be forced to wear my hat when i'm at home.

This is a long term project that's still in conception. Won't be going up anytime soon.