Cop shoots elderly man?

[NavyVet1959]

Lots of drugs come up the coast from florida and I bet quite a bit are found thru stops like the expired reg.

So, in other words, they're just using that as an excuse to stop you and do a fishing expedition. Considering the risk to everyone involved just from getting hit by another vehicle (especially at night), that's seems a bit irresponsible to me.

As to the cane comment looking at the vid and even knowing ahead of time that it was a cane it is hard not to see how the cop thought it was a gun for a split second. Getting out of a car with a cane wouldn't do it, pulling it out of a bed of a truck and "muzzle sweeping" a cop is a bit different.

I've knows quite a few farmers / ranchers who would keep their cane in the back of their truck. Plenty more that would just keep it behind the seat though.

It looked like the cane was one of the adjustable length aluminum ones. I wonder if the cop would have shot him if it had been one of the wooden ones.

Kind of funny tho. The guy who got shot was pretty calm and was saying that he was OK while the cop was breaking down over it.

Must have been shot by a 9mm. :)

[WildBill]

Am I wrong in assuming stories like this are more common than in times gone by or are they just reported more often...?

Should Law Enforcement traffic stop driver/behavior etiquette be taught before getting a drivers license?

Should, perhaps 'annual / continued drivers etiquette education' be mandated for everyone with a drivers license along the lines of: If stopped by an LEO while driving - Once stopped, DO NOT attempt to grab your cane or anything else, put both hands on the wheel / remain motionless / don't speak until spoken to, remain calm and polite. Once given the O.K. to produce D.L. and proof of insurance, do so slowly and deliberately.

If you follow this procedure, you'll probably survive the encounter.

I don't know if these are more common or just reported more. It could be both.
I suspect that you hear about them much more often because of the internet.
I don't remember where or when I learned about the rules about behavior during a traffic stop,
but they are firmly ingrained in my brain.

The rules don't include getting out of the vehicle or grabbing anything.

[mojo84]

If this was his first stop in 25 or more years, he may not be up on the "rules". I remember getting stopped a couple of times back in the early to mid 80's. I met the officer about half way between outr two vehicles. We greeted each other with a handshake. He advised me what I did wrong and went back to his car wrote me a ticket and then we parted ways with a "good day" to each other and a handshake.

Not how it works nowadays.

[Abraham]

WildBill,

My post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but if they don't teach how to comport oneself during an LE traffic stop in Drivers-Ed and make it part of the written test they ought too...we'd probably have more survivors during traffic stops.

Also, maybe start a Public Service Announcement on radio and T.V. about what to do (and not do...) during a traffic stop.

Does that sound like we're leaning toward a police state?

Maybe, I'm not sure, but getting blasted because you're not up on 'how to act' during a traffic stop seems a worthy cause to me.

[WildBill]

If this was his first stop in 25 or more years, he may not be up on the "rules". I remember getting stopped a couple of times back in the early to mid 80's. I met the officer about half way between outr two vehicles. We greeted each other with a handshake. He advised me what I did wrong and went back to his car wrote me a ticket and then we parted ways with a "good day" to each other and a handshake.

Not how it works nowadays.

I am old enough to remember those days.

I find that it is helpful to get stopped every couple of years so that I can keep up on the rule changes.

[WildBill]

WildBill,

My post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but if they don't teach how to comport oneself during an LE traffic stop in Drivers-Ed and make it part of the written test they ought too...we'd probably have more survivors during traffic stops.

Also, maybe start a Public Service Announcement on radio and T.V. about what to do (and not do...) during a traffic stop.

Does that sound like we're leaning toward a police state?

Maybe, I'm not sure, but getting blasted because you're not up on 'how to act' during a traffic stop seems a worthy cause to me.

I hope you don't think I was blasting you.

I was just commenting on the rules as I currently understand them.
As I also stated, I am not sure when or how I became aware.
Some were personal observations, stories from friends, maybe some from traffic school, etc.
I think that they just evolve like many things in life.
When I was a kid we could walk around carrying a bow and arrow and BB gun or pellet gun and nobody would bat an eye.

[Pawpaw]

WildBill,

My post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but if they don't teach how to comport oneself during an LE traffic stop in Drivers-Ed and make it part of the written test they ought too...we'd probably have more survivors during traffic stops.

I don't remember it being part of the test, but back in the day, they dang sure taught us what to do during a traffic stop.

We were to get out of the car, walk to the rear corner, get out our wallet and remove our drivers license. I don't believe I found out about the changed routine until I joined this board and read about it. I have no problem believing that a 75 year old Vietnam veteran didn't get the memo.

[Oldgringo]

If this was his first stop in 25 or more years, he may not be up on the "rules". I remember getting stopped a couple of times back in the early to mid 80's. I met the officer about half way between outr two vehicles. We greeted each other with a handshake. He advised me what I did wrong and went back to his car wrote me a ticket and then we parted ways with a "good day" to each other and a handshake.

Not how it works nowadays.

Yep, that's the way it used to be.....

[Abraham]

WildBill,

No, I didn't think that at all, just doing my routine rambling and stumbling along...

[tomtexan]

If this was his first stop in 25 or more years, he may not be up on the "rules". I remember getting stopped a couple of times back in the early to mid 80's. I met the officer about half way between outr two vehicles. We greeted each other with a handshake. He advised me what I did wrong and went back to his car wrote me a ticket and then we parted ways with a "good day" to each other and a handshake.

Not how it works nowadays.

Done that many times myself back in the yester years. Times have sure changed.

[WildBill]

Does anyone remember when policemen had partners?

I am sure when that practice went away traffic stop procedures changed.

[tomtexan]

Does anyone remember when policemen had partners?

I am sure when that practice went away traffic stop procedures changed.

I remember.

[WildBill]

WildBill,

No, I didn't think that at all, just doing my routine rambling and stumbling along...

Ramble and stumble along!

[EEllis]

So, in other words, they're just using that as an excuse to stop you and do a fishing expedition. Considering the risk to everyone involved just from getting hit by another vehicle (especially at night), that's seems a bit irresponsible to me.

Whatever. I wasn't really going into right or wrong just legal or not and it is clearly legal.

I've knows quite a few farmers / ranchers who would keep their cane in the back of their truck. Plenty more that would just keep it behind the seat though.

It looked like the cane was one of the adjustable length aluminum ones. I wonder if the cop would have shot him if it had been one of the wooden ones.

That's fine but I was making my comment in response to you mentioning exiting a truck with a cane in hand. Not any and every cane related situation.

I watch the video and it looks like a gun being pointed. Just for a second the end went by and you could just see a circle that looks like a muzzle. It's a shame and I wouldn't be surprised if the officer has more issues log term than the victim but I'm not sure it's anything but life. I mean it makes sense the cop thought it was a gun and being pointed at him. He was in fear of his life and reasonable so. By that basis it's a reasonable shooting. If there was a procedural complaint or mistake in the officers actions I haven't heard much about it.

[puma guy]

Having actually been a shooter in a OIS; worked many others and responded to many more as a peer counselor for leos I have a little bit of experience in this area. I wouldn't take what he said to mean anything more then he said. It is hard to talk to somebody that has just had to use deadly force and even harder knowing no weapon was involved. There are rules about what you can and cannot say and it's awkward. The LEO isn't going to say dude you just screwed up. They will do the normal lengthy investigation and you really don't want to send the shooter into a heart attack since you really do want to interview him and find out his state of mind. We talk about that in all the shootings on here both leo and chl. State of mind is a big thing.

In watching the video you can see why he thought he was in fear for his life, but w/o being in HIS shoes, having HIS training and experience, in that moment one cannot say what they would or would not do. One may think they can but I disagree. I too have seen those videos and I have had people do some really stupid stuff during traffic stops to include pulling guns, bats, knives ect on me so one never knows what will happen during a simple stop. Older people also pull weapons on cops just like the younger ones so age cannot be ruled in or out. Unfortunately this person failed to comply, kept getting out of his car and then reached for the long object that turned out to be a cane. in hind site, he probably couldn't hear the officer, but the officer didn't know what he was doing and when he saw the long object pointed the officer thought it was a shot gun. In a police article the leo was already past his car door and had no cover when this occurred. He was moving and shooting which probably and thankfully resulted in missing the target.

None of us can know the officer's state of mind in this shooting and I have no argument with much of what you say having never had to shoot anyone. I have been drawn on by officers while exiting my vehicle on private property for absolutely no reason other than over reaction to something in their minds. I do take issue with your comment that the man failed to comply if that's the basis of your argument. The chief used that same baseless argument to justify the shooting and said the man didn't respond the officers shouts. Comply to what? The officer made no commands. There was nothing to comply to until after the shooting. The only thing the officer said before shooting was "Hey, Sir, "Sir, Sir!" , hardly any sort of command and next he transmitted "Shots Fired! Shots fired!". Only after all this did he make the command to drop the gun. "Sir, get back in your vehicle, put you hands on the truck, turn around facing away from me" Those are commands. I will avoid any conjecture as to whether he made the command "Drop the Gun, Drop the Gun" after shooting in actual fear of a weapon or to cover himself. I'm just glad the man was not fatally shot. I do have to wonder why the officer was so quick to exit his own vehicle. You state from some a unnamed source that he was out and past his door.