Celebratory Gunfire

[XDgal]

While listening to the gunfire around midnight ( which was considerably less than years past ), I got to thinking. Has anyone ever done an experiment to measure exactly how high does a bullet go before it returns to earth? I've done the math, but I'm pretty rusty with my calculus skills. So, is there a definitive measurement? Thanks in advance.

[seamusTX]

Mythbusters did it: http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/04/epis ... up_vo.html

It boiled down to this: If the bullet goes straight up, it comes back down at terminal velocity, which is about 150 feet per second. That's fast enough to cause minor injury, and possibly to kill a baby if it hit in the worst possible location.

However, if the bullet retains horizontal velocity, it can still be deadly. Shooting anywhere below 45° elevation is really dangerous.

- Jim

[XDgal]

Thanks Jim, I guess I need to get cable. I keep hearing about Mythbusters, and would love to see it. My calculations agree with theirs pretty close. Using various muzzle velocities, I came up with 8,000 to 11,000 ft.

[seamusTX]

I don't actually watch the show. That episode was widely discussed in shooting forums when it was released.

The conclusion in any case is that shooting a handgun or rifle into the air is dangerous and stupid.

- Jim

[HankB]

Gen. Julian Hatcher did quite a bit of testing with bullets fired straight up, and concluded that they reached a height of about 9000 feet. Bullets fired straight up normally took about 66 seconds to return to earth, but some - those that began tumbling - took about 40 seconds longer to fall.

Hatcher stated that, if fired straight up, returning bullets would impact at about 300 ft/sec, for about 30 ft. lbs of energy; at the time the Army had decided it took 60 ft. lbs to produce a disabling wound. Returning bullets in his experiments would leave about a 1/16" dent in a soft pine board. (Ouch!)

Shooting into the air to celebrate New Year's, a birthday, wedding, or whatever, is a very bad idea.

[hoss4570]

Anyone who would shoot up in the air with a rifle or a handgun has NO BUISNESS owning a firearm, in my opinion. Just plain STUPID. Dad taught me better................

[HighVelocity]

Fort Worth PD had their hands full last night.

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/story/385167.html

'Woo-hoo!' and 'Bang! Bang!' make New Year's busy for police
By MELODY McDONALD
mjmcdonald@star-telegram.com
FORT WORTH -- Five people were arrested New Year's Eve after police caught them shooting guns into the air, a dangerous and illegal activity that often keeps police from responding to more urgent calls on one of the busiest nights of the year.

Lt. Dean Sullivan, a Fort Worth Police spokesman, said Fort Worth police received 164 calls reporting "shots fired" between 11:30 p.m. New Year's Eve and 3:30 a.m. New Year's Day. There were no reports of injuries from the gunshots, but at least two vehicles, a house and the roof of a church were damaged by gunfire, Sullivan said.

Here are the details, as reported by police, on the arrests of the five people who are now facing gun charges in connection with discharging a firearm in the city:

Ross Avenue

A 31-year-old man was arrested after officers said they saw him standing in an alley in the 3200 block of Ross Avenue, shooting into the sky. As police approached, the man jumped the fence of a residence and tried to go into a house.

As officers approached the residence, a dog advanced on an officer and was shot by police, Sullivan said.

No people were injured, and the suspect, identified as Alfonso Guerrero, was arrested and taken to jail on a charge of illegally discharging a firearm, a Class B misdemeanor that carries a maximum punishment of 180 days in the county jail and a $2,000 fine.

An internal investigation will be conducted into the shooting of the dog.

West Bolt Street

A 30-year-old man was arrested for shooting into the air after he was caught by officers investigating reports of shots being fired in the 1000 block of West Bolt Street.

Sullivan said police were canvassing the area when they heard shots. As officers approached a house, they saw a suspect fire a .357-caliber revolver into the air, 40 feet from the officers, Sullivan said.

The officers drew their weapons and ordered the suspect, identified as Valente Morales, to drop his gun. The gun was later determined to have been stolen out of Arlington, Sullivan said.

Officers also seized a box of ammunition that had been set on a table in the back yard of the home and collected at least 14 shell casings.

Pafford Street

Three men were arrested after officers found them shooting several guns into the sky behind a house in the 700 block of Pafford Street.

Police said that an officer investigating a "shots fired" call in the area saw one of the men shooting a shotgun in the air. A short time later, he saw the suspect hand the shotgun to a man, who fired two shots into the air. A third suspect was observed shooting another gun just as police approached and attempted to take them into custody, Sullivan said.

One of the men tried to flee inside the house but was quickly captured, Sullivan said.

Police seized two semi-automatic 9 mm pistols; a .22-caliber revolver; and one 20-gauge pump-action shotgun from behind the home. Manuel Cardona Jr., 35, Ricky Barela Jr., 27, and Anthony Devalle, 36, all convicted felons, each face a charge of being a felon in possession of a firearm, which carries a maximum punishment of 10 years in prison.

quote]

[seeker_two]

I've wondered if, under Texas law, you would be justified in drawing your weapon to stop someone from firing in the air. Given the possibility of injury and the fact that you'd be making a "citizen's arrest" of an armed person, I wonder how that would play out if the police arrived.......

Just curious.....

[txinvestigator]

I've wondered if, under Texas law, you would be justified in drawing your weapon to stop someone from firing in the air. Given the possibility of injury and the fact that you'd be making a "citizen's arrest" of an armed person, I wonder how that would play out if the police arrived.......

Just curious.....

A citizen can only arrest for felonies committed in his presence or view, and misdemeanor crimes against the public peace. What would you arrest a person for who fired a gun into the air?

[seeker_two]

I've wondered if, under Texas law, you would be justified in drawing your weapon to stop someone from firing in the air. Given the possibility of injury and the fact that you'd be making a "citizen's arrest" of an armed person, I wonder how that would play out if the police arrived.......

Just curious.....

A citizen can only arrest for felonies committed in his presence or view, and misdemeanor crimes against the public peace. What would you arrest a person for who fired a gun into the air?

Discharging a firearm within city limits is usually a misdemeanor in most cities and towns. And disturbing the peace and public endangerment could fall into this category, too. Plus, if I'm close enough to witness the event, I'm close enough to be threatened by the falling bullets. Attempted Assault would be a stretch, but it could be listed as a charge.

I'm not planning to do this myself or advocate anyone else doing it, but I would like to know what legal standing one would have in this situation.......

[dustyb]

I live near a small town, with no ordinances against discharging a firearm in the city limits, and still to the best of my knowledge, no one brought the New Year in with gunfire, or ever has. It must be an "urban" thing. People still shoot fireworks here (no ordinance against that either).

[Greybeard]

Texas Parks and Wildlife (test question) says that even the lowly .22 rimfire bullet can travel up to 1.5 miles. Some of the bigger center fire cartridges can launch 'em 3 to 4 miles. What goes up must come down - somewhere.

I'm quite glad the FW police busted all of the guys above, particulary if they were felons in possession.

[dukalmighty]

About 30 years ago in Salina Ks. a man stepped out of a bar at around midnight on New Years Eve removed an AR15 from his truck and fired several shots in the air,polce responded to a man down call and found a subject that had been shot ,the individual died from the bullet wound.The Police asked for information and somebody gave them the guys name who randomly fired in the air.ballistics confirmed his firearm fired the fatal bullet and after being tried in court was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to prison.Anybody caught recklessly firing a firearm in the air should be banned from ever posessing a weapon again in my opinion.But likethe arrest reports showed 3 of the people were already convicted felons and shouldn't of had a gun in the first place,I hope they get the 10 years they deserve

[Liko81]

It boiled down to this: If the bullet goes straight up, it comes back down at terminal velocity, which is about 150 feet per second. That's fast enough to cause minor injury, and possibly to kill a baby if it hit in the worst possible location.

150fps doesn't sound like much. There were news reports of bullets going through roofs and into living areas of homes; a 7-10 gram projectile that deforms on impact travelling at about 15% of its muzzle velocity would not do a lot of damage. However, you're exactly right; fire a bullet at 45 degrees and it retains about 70% of its horizontal velocity even if the vertical component is reduced to terminal velocity.

[lawrnk]

I live near a small town, with no ordinances against discharging a firearm in the city limits, and still to the best of my knowledge, no one brought the New Year in with gunfire, or ever has. It must be an "urban" thing. People still shoot fireworks here (no ordinance against that either).

It appears to be a very urban thing. I think this is most prevelant is very bad parts of town. I am in a planned community with 4,000 homes. Did not hear a single firearm, even though I suspect my neighbors are armed to the teeth.