What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

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Doug.38PR
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What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

#1

Post by Doug.38PR » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:35 pm

Doesn't the Texas DPS carry the Sig Sauer P226 .357 Sig? Prior to that did they carry the S&W Highway Patrolman M-28 4 or 6 inch? What did they carry prior to that back into the 50s? or was there anything in between


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Re: What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

#2

Post by Texasdoc » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:40 pm

I believe they carried a Model 10 Smith , I will ask my uncle as he retired in the late 70's as a Trooper out of Dallas/Ft.Worth area.

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Re: What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

#3

Post by Mike1951 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:02 pm

Prior to going to the .357 Sig, they were carrying .45 acp.

Danged if I can recall which pistol.
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Re: What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

#4

Post by Xander » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:09 pm

Mike1951 wrote:Prior to going to the .357 Sig, they were carrying .45 acp.

Danged if I can recall which pistol.
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Re: What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

#5

Post by txinvestigator » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:17 pm

My father graduated from the DPS Academy in the late '50s. Standard issue was a model 28, N frame in .357 Magnum, the Highway Patrolman. However, they were out so he was issued a chrome .38 N frame. He was issued a 28 in his first year.

DPS carried that at least onto the early '90s.

License & Weight carried .45s back then, as did Highway Patrol WAAAAY back before his time.

I believe they went straight to the .357 Sig from the revolver.
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Re: What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

#6

Post by dustyb » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:08 pm

I have a friend who graduated from the DPS academy around '96. He had his choice of Sig P220's in 45 ACP or 9mm. He chose the 45 and was able to buy it when they switched to the 357 Sig a few years later.


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Re: What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

#7

Post by Commander » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:21 pm

I'll do some research on this tomorrow. But I am fairly certain that there was at least one semi auto (possibly a 9 mm) and maybe two between the wheel guns - the Mod 28s and the semi-auto .357 Sigs carried now. License & Weight/CVE Troopers, DL Troopers, MVI Troopers and SES Troopers have always carried the same guns as THP Troopers (with rare exceptions such as substituting the lighter Model 19 .357 revolver for the heavier Model 28 .357 for some smaller female troopers.) It just makes sense in a emergency situation to have everybody using the same ammo. That said, during the first transition from wheel guns to semi- autos, there was a period of time when troopers were given the option to carry either - but that didn't last long. I don't remember Troopers carrying .45s, but will check on that -its possible that it was the semi between the 9mm and the .357 Sig.
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Re: What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

#8

Post by Mike1951 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:35 pm

A recollection from another forum:
TxShooter 01-11-2005 01:41 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The truck driver shooting supposedly involved a pair of Texas Highway Patrolmen, but I don't have full details of the shooting. DPS used two .45 loadings that I'm aware of. The first was a custom load by Accurate Ammunition, using the 200 gr. Speer "Flying Ashtray" JHP. The later load was a 230 gr. Winchester Black Talon. The P220 .45 was mostly used by uniformed troopers, while investigators/Rangers could also pick between the P226 and P228 9mms.

Around 1996 or so, DPS picked the SIG P226 for uniforms and the P229 for investigators, both in .357 SIG. The load has remained Speer's 125 gr. Gold Dot (and the pistols are being swapped for the "DAK" 6.5 lb. DAO versions, with flashlight rails). Lt. Dan Walker, the DPS firearms training officer, sent me a letter about the testing, along with some of the ballistics results. He summarized as follows:

"1. An amazing similarity between the .357 SIG and the .357 Magnum caliber. The two cartidges firing the same bullet at basically the same velocity, achieved similar terminal ballistics.

2. The felt and perceived recoil of the .357 SIG was less than the .45 ACP or .357 Magnum and only slightly greater than the 9mm. This feature enhances the officer's accuracy and marksmanship skills, as well as overall test results.

3. Test firing over 100,000 rounds of .357 SIG ammunition in the SIG-Sauer P226-357 pistol revealed no malfunctions or reliability problems."

The testing compared a variety of loadings in 9mm (standard and +P), .357 SIG and Magnum, .45 ACP (standard and +P), and .38 Super.

When talking to troopers about the issue SIGs, several said they preferred the .357 P226 over their old .45 P220s..it was felt that the .45 didn't perform well against car bodies. The only grumbling about the .357 SIG's adoption came from a trooper who was no longer allowed to carry his old 4" M28 on duty. When the P220 was first adopted, troopers could continue to carry the S&W M28 or 586 .357 Magnums.

FWIW, I was doing a ride-along with my local sheriff's office when we caught the tail end of a 30 mile pursuit. It ended when the fleeing driver sideswiped a trooper's patrol car, trying to force him into the guardrail of a bridge. The trooper rolled down his passenger side window, leaned across the seat, and fired out the window at the rear tire. The bullet left a half-inch hole in the wheel and penetrated the brake drum. Black smoke continued to pour from the brakes as the driver skidded to a halt against a mailbox. The trooper involved was one of the ones who loved the new .357, and complained that the department wouldn't let them use "hot loads" (his words) in the .45s.
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Re: What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

#9

Post by txinvestigator » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:46 pm

dustyb wrote:I have a friend who graduated from the DPS academy around '96. He had his choice of Sig P220's in 45 ACP or 9mm. He chose the 45 and was able to buy it when they switched to the 357 Sig a few years later.
I thought DPS might have had a different semi-auto between the revolvers and new .357 Sigs, but my dad retired in the late '70s and just was not sure.
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Re: What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

#10

Post by Doug.38PR » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:28 pm

This is interesting. I remember reading that the New Mexico State Troopers back in the 70s and 80s were issued M-19 .357 Magnums in Ed Lovette's The Snubby. As a side note, he states that in his conversations with more than 75 men that had been in a shootout, not one of them ever suggested that they "would have been better served with a semi-automatic" that in fact there had only been one situation where the trooper had to reload..but instead chose to go grab his 20 gauge shotgun to settle things.

That's pretty amazing that the DPS carried M-28 Highway well into the 1990s. Any of them carry 6 inch?

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Re: What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

#11

Post by ELB » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:59 pm

To jump off on a tangent for a moment -- I was interested to read this:
Mike1951 wrote:A recollection from another forum:
TxShooter 01-11-2005 01:41 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Around 1996 or so, DPS picked the SIG P226 for uniforms and the P229 for investigators, both in .357 SIG. The load has remained Speer's 125 gr. Gold Dot (and the pistols are being swapped for the "DAK" 6.5 lb. DAO versions, with flashlight rails). Lt. Dan Walker, the DPS firearms training officer, sent me a letter about the testing, along with some of the ballistics results. He summarized as follows:

"1. An amazing similarity between the .357 SIG and the .357 Magnum caliber. The two cartidges firing the same bullet at basically the same velocity, achieved similar terminal ballistics.

2. The felt and perceived recoil of the .357 SIG was less than the .45 ACP or .357 Magnum and only slightly greater than the 9mm. This feature enhances the officer's accuracy and marksmanship skills, as well as overall test results."
...

Last spring I tested my Model 19 .357 Magnum with a 4" barrel against my Browning Hi Power .40 with an EFK Fire Dragon 357 Sig barrel in it (length approx 4"). In the revolver I used Hornady 125 gr JHP/XTP; in the HP I used 124gr JHP/XTP. That was as close as I could get to identical loadings off the shelf at Cabela's, fired thru nearly the same length barrels. The 357 Sig was slightly faster, and had a bit more penetration into wetpack than the .357 Mag. The Sig was considerably quieter and milder than the Magnum round -- didn't feel any more souped up than the .40 fired from my BHP, and not much more than the 9mm BHP. So I was interested to see the DPS guy had pretty much the same experience.

OK, back to our regularly scheduled program...

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Re: What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

#12

Post by Doug.38PR » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:58 pm

I always heard that the .357 Sig was supposed to match the performance of the .357 Magnum....but that the Magnum was actually much more powerful. In fact, I looked at baby glock .357 at a gunshow one time...and my jaw fell. "that shoots a .357 magnum??....that thing will fly out of your hand." The lady who had the gun on display said "oh no, it's not .357 magnum, it's .357 Sig....big difference, not near as powerful"


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Re: What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

#13

Post by txinvestigator » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:14 am

Doug.38PR wrote:The lady who had the gun on display said "oh no, it's not .357 magnum, it's .357 Sig....big difference, not near as powerful"
I think the DPS testing disagreed.
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Re: What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

#14

Post by Greybeard » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 am

Methinks the "almost identical" comparision with .357 Mag and .357 Sig is when both are loaded with similar/standard weight bullets in the 125 grain range. .357 Mag can of course be much more versatile and "powerful" when commonly loaded with heavier bullets - and shot out of often longer "standard" barrel lengths.
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Re: What does (did) the Texas DPS troopers carry?

#15

Post by Commander » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:39 am

My research results - According to the two long time Troopers I just asked: The first gun transition from the Model 28 was to either a 9mm or a .45 - Troopers choice (both Sigs). Then they transitioned to a .357 Sig with decock; then they moved to the current .357 Sig DAO.

I stand corrected on the .45, I just didn't remember that one. :oops:
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