Looking to purchase a pocket BUG...updated with pics

[pt145ss]

I plan on buying a pocket 380 this week as a backup. I have narrowed my list down to three possibilities; they are in order of preference as follows: NAA Guardian 380, Seecamp LWS38 380, and the Kel-Tec P-3AT. Do any of you have experience with any of these pistols and if so, what are the pros and cons of each? I would like to know about any quarks you may have found with them for example heavy gritty trigger pull and etc.

Thanks in advance for the info.

[anygunanywhere]

I have no experience with the NAA or Seacamp. I own two P3ATs, both first generation, one parkerized, one hard chrome.

Once I did the fluff and buff and broke them in they have performed flawlessly. Long trigger pull and they are not what you would want to shoot a lot. They are a little handfull and are subject to limpwristing. I shoot mine strong hand only, no two handed grip. Not enough pistol for two hands with sausage fingers. They are close-up weapons only but if you work at it reasonable accuracy at 7 yards can be had.

Mine function with either ball ammo or MagTech 85 gr hollow points.

Carry one most of the time as a backup or church gun in a DeSantis pocket holster.

You will either like it or hate it.

Try http://www.ktog.org/ for all the info you need.

Anygun

[ELB]

My 2 cents on the P-3AT. My wife carries it, primarily because it is so small and flat she will take it everywhere. Would prefer she carry something heftier as a primary, but at least she will tote this one around. I have used the P-3AT some, and this is what I noticed:

What I don't like:
- Trigger is pretty heavy and long (of course this is the safety feature/consequence of the design -- life is full of trade-offs)
- Slide spring is heavy too -- combined with its small size, can make it tough to fully cycle it manually for malf drill and loading, chamber check, etc. Not undoable, just takes more effort than full size pistol. If you have wide/fat hands (like me), it is easy to inadvertently get a piece of your hand over the muzzle when cycling the slide. Not recommended!
- Sights are TINY. I put white paint on the front sight face using a toothpick, and this helped immensely
- Takes extra concentration to aim versus my nice long BHP sight radius.
- .380 ACP. Wish it had more oomph. We load her P-3AT with Corbon DPX -- people I trust say it has excellent penetration and expansion for a .380 bullet

What I do like:
- Very flat and small and light -- fits anywhere. Even in a neck holster. People rave about how nice the Bersa .380s are, and I am sure they are excellent guns, but for their size you can get a 9mm. P-3AT is really a go-anywhere gun.
- Polymer frame is tought, impervious to corrosion.
- No extra safety levers buttons or gizmos. Point and shoot interface.
- Relatively inexpensive. I haven't looked at the Seecamps and Guardians lately, but I think you can buy a couple P-3ATs (perhaps used) for what you pay for one them.
- Holds more rounds than a revolver

Have no experience with your other two choices, tho have heard nice things about them. I ended up getting an .38 Spcl Airweight for a BUG, because I can get .38 ammo with plenty of oomph, and if I want to hand it off to my wife or a friend, it is not too complicated for them to use immediately. If I didn't go with the Airweight, I would get a P-3AT for myself.

Would love to tryout a Rohrbaugh 9mm sometime, but not for nearly $1000 (last time I looked).

Good luck.

elb

[pt145ss]

My 2 cents on the P-3AT. My wife carries it, primarily because it is so small and flat she will take it everywhere. Would prefer she carry something heftier as a primary, but at least she will tote this one around. I have used the P-3AT some, and this is what I noticed:

What I don't like:
- Trigger is pretty heavy and long (of course this is the safety feature/consequence of the design -- life is full of trade-offs)
- Slide spring is heavy too -- combined with its small size, can make it tough to fully cycle it manually for malf drill and loading, chamber check, etc. Not undoable, just takes more effort than full size pistol. If you have wide/fat hands (like me), it is easy to inadvertently get a piece of your hand over the muzzle when cycling the slide. Not recommended!
- Sights are TINY. I put white paint on the front sight face using a toothpick, and this helped immensely
- Takes extra concentration to aim versus my nice long BHP sight radius.
- .380 ACP. Wish it had more oomph. We load her P-3AT with Corbon DPX -- people I trust say it has excellent penetration and expansion for a .380 bullet

What I do like:
- Very flat and small and light -- fits anywhere. Even in a neck holster. People rave about how nice the Bersa .380s are, and I am sure they are excellent guns, but for their size you can get a 9mm. P-3AT is really a go-anywhere gun.
- Polymer frame is tought, impervious to corrosion.
- No extra safety levers buttons or gizmos. Point and shoot interface.
- Relatively inexpensive. I haven't looked at the Seecamps and Guardians lately, but I think you can buy a couple P-3ATs (perhaps used) for what you pay for one them.
- Holds more rounds than a revolver

Have no experience with your other two choices, tho have heard nice things about them. I ended up getting an .38 Spcl Airweight for a BUG, because I can get .38 ammo with plenty of oomph, and if I want to hand it off to my wife or a friend, it is not too complicated for them to use immediately. If I didn't go with the Airweight, I would get a P-3AT for myself.

Would love to tryout a Rohrbaugh 9mm sometime, but not for nearly $1000 (last time I looked).

Good luck.

elb

Thanks for the excellent write up. A buddy of mine has both a P-3AT and a Seecamp 32. The Seecamp 32 and the Seecamp 380 are identical in size. The Seecamp is slightly smaller in overall length and height when compared to the P-3AT. The P-3AT is slightly smaller in width then the Seecamp (.77 and .90 in. Respectively). After holding both in my hands (I have not shot either one) the Seecamp seemed to feel a little bit better and I think the heavier weight of the seecamp may help with the felt recoil. The price on the seecamp has come down dramatically since the Guardian came out with a 380 and retails between $400 and $475. I have not had my hands on the guardian 380 but according to specs it is almost identical in size compared to the P-3AT. It is a little heavier and wider, however, the width probably will feel better in my hands. The Guardian also retails around $400 to $450. The P-3AT is definitely more wallet friendly at $240 for parkerized and $319 for hard chrome. That being said, the wife is giving me a free pass on cost and allowing me to spend the extra money on the Guardian or Seecamp if I feel that it is a better pistol.

[DoubleJ]

Taurus or Smith J-Frame in .38spl.

aaaaaaaand, I'll tell you why.

1. Ammo for 380 is retardedly expensive. how is a shorter case, with the ~same bullet going to cost more?
2. I'm sure you've shot one of your 380's before, but for me, shooting a J-frame in .38spl is waaaaaay more comfortable.
3. I believe a .380 to be underpowered. it'll gitcha just as much as a .22LR, but still. my opinion.

magazine capacity? I thik 5 is enough for a BUG. 7-or 8 really doesn't seem like a major advantage to me.

I personally have issue with many of the .380's out (bought my SO a Bersa .380, so I do have experience with them) as far as ultimate reliability (specially from limp wristing and whatnot). once again, just my undereducated opinion.

enjoy whatever you get and of course, pics!

[HighVelocity]

Are you committed to .380? I carry a Beretta Tomcat (32acp) in my pocked and FWIW, it's extremely accurate for such a tiny gun and has been totally reliable. http://www.berettausa.com/product/produ ... s_main.htm

[pt145ss]

Are you committed to .380? I carry a Beretta Tomcat (32acp) in my pocked and FWIW, it's extremely accurate for such a tiny gun and has been totally reliable. http://www.berettausa.com/product/produ ... s_main.htm

I am not absolutely committed to a 380. What I am committed to is being able to pocket carry no matter what I am wearing. I did look at the Tomcat. I like the steel/alloy design and the way it fit in my hand, what I did not like was the fact that it is 1.1 in wide which made it print in my pocket a lot more than the others did. That being said, I will take another look at it again at the Austin Gun Show this weekend. Also, someone mentioned that I should try a small J frame. I like the J frames, however, I found them to be slightly too large for pocket carry (at least for me).

[DoubleJ]

too big for pocket carry? well, for you, that may be true, and that is a perfectly acceptable thing.
for me, in a decent pocket holster, it disappears and/or looks like my wallet.
some pants, however, I can not do this with, so I hear you there.
eh, well. enjoy whatever you get.

[pt145ss]

too big for pocket carry? well, for you, that may be true, and that is a perfectly acceptable thing.
for me, in a decent pocket holster, it disappears and/or looks like my wallet.
some pants, however, I can not do this with, so I hear you there.
eh, well. enjoy whatever you get.

I thank you for your input and I agree that that a j frame has many advantages, however, like I said I did have a hard time pocketing it. I wish that were not the case because then my decision would be easy. One reason i do not mind going with a smaller caliber is because the pocket pistol is simply a backup pistol as most of the time I will have my .45 on me. It will be a rare occasion to only have the pocket pistol.

[Moonpie]

My experience is only with the Seecamp. It is a fantastic little weapon.
You'll find yourself carrying a LOT more with one.
They are ammo sensitve but once you find the right load they normally run like a top.
For a deep carry piece they are great.
There is a thread further back where we discussed them.

[pt145ss]

My experience is only with the Seecamp. It is a fantastic little weapon.
You'll find yourself carrying a LOT more with one.
They are ammo sensitve but once you find the right load they normally run like a top.
For a deep carry piece they are great.
There is a thread further back where we discussed them.

I did read a lot of good reviews about them. I also read that they were particular about ammo...i thought i read that that only like SilverTips. The guardian was a little better in this regard because one has more ammo choices. That being said the Seecamp is still in the running if I can find one.

[srothstein]

I carry the NAA Guardian 380 as my every day backup and off duty gun. It is in my right hip pocket almost any time I am dressed. It has a long and hard trigger pull. It is alos very concealable. It is a belly gun but I can take 15 yard shots with it for qualification and hit the target every time.

And, I have no doubt in my mind that it will work and go bang every time I pull the trigger. I have at least 500 rounds through it with no problems. I wiould not hesitate to recommend it, as long as the person is aware of the trigger pull.

[jbirds1210]

+1 for the little Berettas....they are really nice and accurate little guns. I ended up with one in a trade a while back that happened to be a 25 auto. I do not have it anymore, but it was a spooky accurate little gun! They are priced very reasonable.

I favor the Glock 26, but realize that most folks can't carry that in their pocket unless wearing cargo shorts.

Jason

[Tactical_Texan_CHL]

I carry my P3AT every day. I like it. I haven't had any issues with it at all. I was very skeptical at first when I read so many bad things about it. I guess it's just one that's really well put together. I got mine for $225 brand new from local gun store. It seems they've shot up in price fairly recently. I figured I could try it, and if it was really that bad, I'd ditch it, for $225 that wasn't too bad. I've put well over 500 rounds through mine now. I put 200 through it the first day I took it to the range. Yeah, it wasn't real fun. It's by no means a recreational gun to shoot, but it serves it's purpose, and I've since put around 300 rounds of assorted ammo through it. Right now I'm carrying Silver Tips, but it also likes Gold Dot's. I figured I'd beat it up right off the bat so I'd know whether or not it would work out.

Looking back, I like the feel of the NAA better, it has a metal frame, and the same mag capacity in .380. Since it's a pocket gun, and I already have a suitable pocket gun, I can't justify spending it now. But I might have gone with it in the first place had I looked a little harder. I also really like the Rohrbaugh. I'd really rather have at least a 9mm, but it's a little pricey right now. I mean, geez, I can have a NICE 1911 for that price.

If you go with the Kel-Tec, good luck. It seem's to be either hit or miss. Luckily, mine's a hit. Since we're on the topic of .380, what rounds do you guys recommend? I was thinking about trying the Hornady XTP. They work well in my .45's. I haven't tried them in anything else yet. I have to admit, even though I carry it every day now, sometimes the effectiveness of the .380 worries me.

[Mike1951]

I also read that they were particular about ammo...i thought i read that that only like SilverTips.

The Seecamp was originally designed to work with the Silvertip and that was the only ammunition that was recommended for it.

Several years ago, it was modified to function with other loadings.