At The Polls (no...not a political topic)

[dmac]

As my wife and I were parking at our local polling place on Tuesday I noticed a uniformed police officer exiting a civilian vehicle. He proceeded into the polling place (with his sidearm) to cast his ballott. This disturbed me as I thought that guns were prohibited from polling places, and I could think of no reason why an HPD officer would be exempt from that law. When I got home I checked the law and, sure enough, even police are barred from entering polling places while armed unless they are discharging some official duty. I wrote to the election commission and the ACLU for clarification, and they agreed; the officer was in violation of the law. They suggested that I write a letter to HPD asking them to clarify the rules to their officers. The ACLU election watcher added that I should also contact the local media (don't think I'll be doing that).

Just thought ya'll might be interested in what I saw and found out.

It worries me that, more and more, HPD officers seem to think that the "EXEMPT" on their cars' license plates applys to them personally as well.

[mr surveyor]

and, of all people, you involved the likes of the aclu in this issue???? Why bring it to light that way??? If you have a problem with HPD CALL THEM!!!



sheesh!

[seamusTX]

Where are you finding that a LEO cannot carry in a polling place unless on official duty?

PC §46.03 prohibits weapons in polling places. (BTW, that is any firearm, knife, or club).

Then we have:

PC §46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:
(1) peace officers or special investigators under Article 2.122, Code of Criminal Procedure, and neither section prohibits a peace officer or special investigator from carrying a weapon in this state, including in an establishment in this state serving the public, regardless of whether the peace officer or special investigator is engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's or investigator's duties while carrying the weapon;

I think the only place that police cannot carry is secure areas of jails and similar venues.

- Jim

[dmac]

and, of all people, you involved the likes of the aclu in this issue???? Why bring it to light that way??? If you have a propblem with HPD CALL THEM!!!



sheesh!

"involved;" "brought to light," is not exactly what I did. Asked is more like it. I sent an email to their election "hot line," and one to the Texas Sec State...FOR CLARIFICATION. I wanted to know whether or not my assumptions were correct BEFORE I contacted HPD.

I have never understood The Right's (making an assumption here) problem with the ACLU. I happen to like the constitution and anyone who works to protect it.

[dmac]

Where are you finding that a LEO cannot carry in a polling place unless on official duty?

PC §46.03 prohibits weapons in polling places. (BTW, that is any firearm, knife, or club).

Then we have:

PC §46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:
(1) peace officers or special investigators under Article 2.122, Code of Criminal Procedure, and neither section prohibits a peace officer or special investigator from carrying a weapon in this state, including in an establishment in this state serving the public, regardless of whether the peace officer or special investigator is engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's or investigator's duties while carrying the weapon;

I think the only place that police cannot carry is secure areas of jails and similar venues.

- Jim

46.03 says unless in the discharge of official duties. Must admit I was not aware of the 46.02 provision. That being said, the answer I got from the Sec State's office backed me up.

BTW..I did not get the officer's name or badge number, nor would I have reported it if I had gotten it. I'm not "out to get" this guy. I just thought that I was clear on the law and was seeking clarification. I will be writing a letter to HPD either for my clarification, or HPD's.

[seamusTX]

The defenses to prosecution in 46.03 apply to security guards, judicial officers, and other non-LEOs who must be performing official duties.

I don't know where the Secretary of State's office is getting their information.

46.03 contains a bunch of overlapping and inconsistent provisions that various legislatures have tacked on, probably late at night after sipping from their hip flasks.

- Jim

[Purplehood]

If I saw the LEO exiting a civilian vehicle, I would wonder about the Polling-place regs too.

Now I know. I love this forum for the wealth of information and the ability of members to point you to information that clarifies and substantiates. But sometimes I wonder if some folks don't get just a tad too excited in their responses.

Of course this may come back to haunt me in this forum, sometime.

[The Annoyed Man]

No weapons at all of any kind are allowed?

On Tuesday, I left my gun at home, voted (5 blocks away), went home, and re-armed. However, the whole time I was at the polls, I had a Gerber folding knife with a 3" spring assisted blade in my pocket. Although a pocket knife can be a weapon, I never think of mine that way. It's just a handy tool that I never leave home without.

If I was in violation of the law, either nobody noticed, or nobody cared. I certainly didn't try and hide it. It's clipped right there in my right front pocket, with the clip showing.

[seamusTX]

For a knife to be considered a weapon under 46.02 or 46.03, it must meet the definition of "illegal knife" in 46.01, i.e., blade longer than 5.5 inches or some other factors.

With a folding knife shorter than 5.5 inches, you were OK.

BTW, if HPD officers were doing something illegal, and HPD brass and the Harris County DA's office wouldn't do anything about, the ACLU is exactly who I would want raising a stink about. Who else would do it?

The Texas ACLU issued a report about the abuse of the old traveling exception in Harris County, which contributed to the passage of the unambiguous Motorist Protection Act in 2007.

Many people do not understand that each state has an autonomous ACLU chapter. The Texas ACLU may have different concerns from, say, the Massachusetts ACLU.

- Jim

[dmac]

No weapons at all of any kind are allowed?

On Tuesday, I left my gun at home, voted (5 blocks away), went home, and re-armed. However, the whole time I was at the polls, I had a Gerber folding knife with a 3" spring assisted blade in my pocket. Although a pocket knife can be a weapon, I never think of mine that way. It's just a handy tool that I never leave home without.

If I was in violation of the law, either nobody noticed, or nobody cared. I certainly didn't try and hide it. It's clipped right there in my right front pocket, with the clip showing.

yeah...they asked my wife and I if we had cell phones with cameras, but no one asked about, noticed, or said anything about the Kershaw clipped inside my pocket. I too am of the "it's a tool, not a weapon," opinion.

[KBCraig]

The restriction on polling places is yet another crazy law that needs to be eliminated. There is no valid reason for it.

Almost all polling places here are schools, but we need to eliminate that restriction too.

In Pennsylvania, people open carried while voting, without even raising eyebrows.

[dmac]

Even if he "violated the law", who cares. If he wasn't threatening anybody with the firearm or attempting to intimidate people to vote one way or another, it's a non-issue imo.

So LEO can do whatever they want? Why can't I carry a gun into a polling place as long as I don't threaten anyone? Let's remember, voting is a very private and sacred thing. And intimidation can be very subtle, whether it is intended or not. Lots of countries have government officers intimidating people at the polls. It happens all over the world. What if there was a soldier decked out in armor and helmet, wearing a ski mask under his helmet, holding an M-4 at the polling place? That would annoy the hell out of me; it might threaten others; and it could easily intimidate others into voting a certain way. Are police officers so different? Both military officers and police officers are government enforcement agents.

Personally, I'd like to see a ban on any uniformed government employee (whether armed or not) in polling places. Uniforms are outward representations of the entity from which the uniform was issued. They carry all of the symbols of power and authority of that agency. There is a reason military and police uniforms have all of that "bling;" It is there as a symbol of the power of that officer, who is a symbol and enforcer of the power of his agency, which is a symbol and enforcer of the power of the government of which the agency is a part. They have no place in an area in which the people are possibly engaged in changing the government whose power is being symbolized.

I'm not saying that police officers, or soldiers, or baliffs, or county sanitation workers shouldn't vote; I'm saying that they should not be armed, and suggesting that wearing the uniform while voting is, at best, in bad taste.

[dmac]

In Pennsylvania, people open carried while voting, without even raising eyebrows.

I'd be all for the people excercising their rights to carry (openly or concealed) while voting. I have a particular problem with governmet agents doing it while uniformed. I think it sends an unfortunate symbolic message. Of course, if an LEO was out of uniform, in civilain garb, excercising his rights as a civilian, and also armed; I would have no problem that either. It is the uniform accompanied by the firearm that projects government power, not the armed individual.

[Liberty]

and, of all people, you involved the likes of the aclu in this issue???? Why bring it to light that way??? If you have a problem with HPD CALL THEM!!!



sheesh!

Sometimes things aren't exactly like they seem.

The Police department is the same Department that gave us the likes of Mayor Brown and Chief Bradford, Democratic hacks who are not exactly friends of CHL holders. A few of the Houston Unions unions have spoken against us in Legislative sessions. Did You know that the ACLU played a signifcant role in in giving us our Motorist protection Act? While The Attorney Generals office fought us tooth and nail and There was no support coming from the City of Houston and its Police Department. The Texas ACLU hasn't signed on against our rights like the national group has. They actually concider the RKBA a constituional right.

Know your friends and know your enemies.



I do wonder though if it shouldn't be legal for an officer to be able to vote during his lunch hour or scheduled break. But I do believe as long as departments continue to give out petty tickets like speeding tickets the police need to be held to the strictest standards of the law also.