"Why do you need that thing in church?"

[seamusTX]

In Oregon yesterday, an alleged gang member was shot during a firefight in a church, during a funeral. Police responded within five minutes. The shooter escaped.

http://fe30.story.media.ac4.yahoo.com/n ... l_shooting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

[Fangs]

At least the guy was a good shot... i.e. no one else was injured. Could have been a lot worse.

[seamusTX]

I guess there's an upside to everything if you look for it. We can be thankful that no children were injured.

- Jim

[KD5NRH]

"Everything was so fast."

Except the police response.

Police responded to an emergency call within about five minutes, he said.

In five minutes, I can use up all 20rds of my usual carry ammo on carefully-aimed shots, walk to the car, reload the gun, speedstrip, and speedloaders, and call my attorney. I'd rather depend on the much faster process.

[scootergeek]

I've said it before and i'll say it again if ya gonna decide to get chl and carry then ya better carry everywhere.

[scootergeek]

Now sitting here thinking more on this it has come to mind that I would feel completely bad for taking someone down in a church that was acting a fool doing harm. I would do it dont get me wrong but it would just leave me feeling a lil guilty to do it in God's house. Like a dirty feeling. I'd definitely be getting re-baptised next sunday.

[jiannichan]

Oh, I'm with you there. There have been quite a few times where I am in church and think what I would do if some BG decided to barge in. I don't have my plastic yet and the gun is in my car, so until the plastic arrives, I'm helpless. But the situation was to happen after having my plastic, how I would feel after taking down an intruder and how the church members would feel that I was carrying. The church I attend, maybe 65% of the members are elders, the rest are between 5-35 years of age. I know for a fact that the elders there don't like guns and...I don't know how to say it, very friendly and easily trusting of visitors. I'm always there scoping out anyone that I don't recognize and keeping an eye on them.

[seamusTX]

I don't see how defending yourself or others in church is different from doing it in anywhere that is not considered sacred.

Since Christianity is all about forgiveness, if it happens, you can seek forgiveness in whatever manner your church prescribes.

If they won't forgive you, I guess it's time to find another church.

I'm guessing from your name, jiannichan, the elders are Chinese or maybe Vietnamese. I can understand why they "don't like guns" after all the horrors of war in that part of the world in the last century. However, they might reconsider their views if the saw a real-life example of legitimate self defense.

BTW, most violence in church is caused by deranged church members rather than criminals. Occasionally the perpetrator will be someone who is bigoted against that particular religion.

- Jim

[bryang]

I don't see how defending yourself or others in church is different from doing it in anywhere that is not considered sacred.

Since Christianity is all about forgiveness, if it happens, you can seek forgiveness in whatever manner your church prescribes.

If they won't forgive you, I guess it's time to find another church.

I'm guessing from your name, jiannichan, the elders are Chinese or maybe Vietnamese. I can understand why they "don't like guns" after all the horrors of war in that part of the world in the last century. However, they might reconsider their views if the saw a real-life example of legitimate self defense.

BTW, most violence in church is caused by deranged church members rather than criminals. Occasionally the perpetrator will be someone who is bigoted against that particular religion.

- Jim

I agree Jim, there was a thread here a while back asking "do you carry at church" and I think you could safely say that on this forum it was about 100%.

I would feel guilty if I did not do anything to stop the attack.

-geo

[starrbuck]

I've said it before and i'll say it again if ya gonna decide to get chl and carry then ya better carry everywhere.

A wise man once said, "Carry 24/7 or guess right." :)

[seamusTX]

It goes on, and closer to home.

In Henderson, Texas, Sunday, a robber threatened and robbed members of a Mormon church and fired shots into the air.

For some reason, this story did not come to public attention until today.

http://www.news-journal.com/hp/content/ ... bery_.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Henderson is in northeast Texas, not far from Tyler.

- Jim

[Oldgringo]

It goes on, and closer to home.

In Henderson, Texas, Sunday, a robber threatened and robbed members of a Mormon church and fired shots into the air.

For some reason, this story did not come to public attention until today.

http://www.news-journal.com/hp/content/ ... bery_.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Henderson is in northeast Texas, not far from Tyler.

- Jim

I just printed this article for Mrs. Oldgringo's reading pleasure. She has asked the above question knowing that an incident on the church steps a couple of years ago is what prompted us to get our CHL's. Go figure .

[Mcoupe]

My Priest/friend carries after being robbed twice at Church (after mass).

I believe he is conflicted.

[BluHog]

New Guy Question - I haven't taken the CHL class yet but I understand that, in certain places, carrying is prohibited. Bars are one, placarded places are another. I thought churches were also off-limits. Those of you who've been educated - what is the law?

Thanks in advance!

[mr.72]

I attend what might be called a "megachurch", or a burgeoning "megachurch". We have more new visitors each Sunday than the entire attendance of most other churches. When you have several hundred new faces appearing in your church every week, often only visiting one time or walking in late, not exactly looking or acting like the average regular church member, etc., then it is nearly impossible to employ security policies based on familiarity. If you have a church with 100 people in the congregation, then everyone will know if someone new shows up and can easily, collectively, make a reasoned assessment of whether that person might be up to no good. Not so when you have 5,000 people in the chairs, 200 of which may be new faces.

Likewise, our parking lot is a zoo between services. We have thousands of cars parked in the parking lot, remote parking lots, night services and the parking lot is dark, a lot of high-dollar vehicles and a blase assumption of security because, you know, it's a church, right? But this church has been robbed before, and I would think it is a target-rich environment for car thieves, smash-n-grabbers (we publish the schedule by which people are not going to be leaving their cars unattended), or other types of property crime. And on that same note, we have probably a million dollars worth of sound, video, and music equipment sitting right out in the wide open, some of which belongs to me personally. And I am going to my car three or four hours after dark after rehearsal or services with three guitars and a bag full of gear in my hands all the time. Last night I was the last person to leave the church, at 9:30pm my car was the only one in the parking lot when I went out. Not only that, but this is a very easy environment to case. I am going to my car with $5K worth of guitars on me at 9:30pm every Tuesday and Wednesday night, and I park in the same place, etc. Actually thinking about that now, I wonder if I shouldn't try and change this.

This all is in spite of the fact that we have a pastor who is sort of a public figure, and openly professes ideals and faith that is not exactly embraced by all people, particularly criminals. So there is the nutjob risk as well.

And one last thing: I spend more time at church than I do at any other place except for my home and my place of business. In fact, nearly all of my "spare time" is spent at church. Now maybe one congregation member may only attend church for two hours per week but I am there for 20-30 hours each week.

So you know, I figure if I am ever going to need to use my gun for the defense of my self or others, then church is at least as likely to be the place where that happens as any other place I might be.