Defensive Gun Use Issues

[ELB]

Wasn't sure of the best forum to place this in, but since the defender in the story had a CHL, finally went with this forum.

The below story is old, but I just ran across it, and thought others here might find it interesting as well since it has a number of elements frequently discussed: having gun in hand when the cops arrive, disparity of force, unarmed assailant(s), detaining the assailant(s), things like that.

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefense ... 9955089479" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wednesday, May 14, 2008

Gold Beach, Oregon

From the Curry County Reporter of May 14, 2008
Brookings man draws gun in self-defense

The Brookings Police Department hasn't gotten much sleep in the past 24 hours, as a Brookings man drew a gun on multiple individuals on Monday. In a series of recent incidents, Brookings Police Officers have arrested twelve individuals in multiple cases.

On 05-12-08 at about 7:25 p.m., Officers were dispatched to McDonald's restaurant, 815 Chetco Avenue in Brookings, Oregon for a report of a fight between multiple subjects. While in-route to the call, officers were notified one of the individuals involved in the fight was waving a gun.

Police officers arrived on the scene less than one minute later and found Kerry Von Pohle (9/18/1948) pointing a revolver towards Kevin Eber (10/7/1989) and Jacob Shelton (9/5/1988). Officers drew their firearms and commanded Von Pohle to put his weapon down. Von Pohle complied with these commands. An investigation revealed Von Pohle had drawn his gun in self-defense.

Kevin Eber had thrown a partially full beer can, striking Von Pohle's car. Von Pohle asked Eber why and Eber became violent, telling Von Pohle he was going to kill him. During that exchange, Shelton attacked Von Pohle, striking him with closed fists and slamming his head into a parked car.

Von Pohle attempted to fend off the attack but realized Eber was closing in on him as well. Von Pohle drew his concealed 9mm revolver (for which he had a weapon permit) and pointed it at both subjects telling them if they came any closer he would shoot. The suspects stopped their advance. Von Pohle also had called 911 to notify police.

Eber was arrested within minutes and lodged; Shelton had left the scene and was later arrested. Eber was charged with Menacing, and Disorderly Conduct, and Shelton was charged with Assault and Menacing. Both were lodged in the Curry County Jail. Von Pohle was not charged with a crime.

[seamusTX]

Kerry Von Pohle (9/18/1948) pointing a revolver towards Kevin Eber (10/7/1989) and Jacob Shelton (9/5/1988)

Assuming that these are the birth dates of the individuals, it was two 19-year-old punks versus a 59-year-old. It's also a likely guess that someone throwing beer cans in public is intoxicated -- underage in this case.

9mm revolver

Where can I get one of those?

I should add that although this case turned out well for all involved (including the punks who didn't get shot), past performance is no guarantee of future results. A hostile DA could have prosecuted in this case, even with a low likelihood of obtaining a conviction.

- Jim

[ELB]

9mm revolver

Where can I get one of those? - Jim

Here's some:
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.a ... =131437358" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.a ... =131614050" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.a ... =131798595" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They are not common, and there's a good chance the reporter screwed up, but S&W, Taurus, and Charter Arms have all produced 9mm revolvers, and I believe all were snubbies. Always thought it would make a nice BUG companion for my hipower.

I should add that although this case turned out well for all involved (including the punks who didn't get shot), past performance is no guarantee of future results. A hostile DA could have prosecuted in this case, even with a low likelihood of obtaining a conviction.
- Jim

A hostile DA can prosecute anything. Slamming someone's head into a car counts as deadly force to me, and two 19 y.o.'s versus a 59 y.o. (or even a 49 y.o. like me)...yeah, big disparity of force. To be prosecuted, you have to be alive first.

[BobCat]

Ruger made a Speed Six or Security Six in 9mm as well.

[Rex B]

Sounds to me like the man was very patient with these louts before he decided to draw.

[quidni]

Ruger made a Speed Six or Security Six in 9mm as well.

Speed Six is .22 (IIRC) and the Security Six is in .357. We've got "more than one" Security Six in the family. Ruger's 9mm revolver was a caliber variant of the SP101, and I have one with a 3" barrel.

No, it's not for sale.

Ever.

[BobCat]

Yes, the Security Six was made in .357 magnum, I have one I bought new in 1971. But besides .22, the Speed Six was made in at least .38 and I believe also in .357 mag. I believe it is the same frame as the Security Six, but with fixed sights instead of adjustable.

However, I do recall seeing one or the other in 9 mm, at a gun show in Houston in the mid-1990s. It was a six-shot revolver on a larger frame than the SP101.

If/when I get a chance, I will do some research and either confirm this or eat my words.

Regards,
Andrew

[quidni]

However, I do recall seeing one or the other in 9 mm, at a gun show in Houston in the mid-1990s. It was a six-shot revolver on a larger frame than the SP101.

Kewl... 9mm is fun in a revolver. The more the merrier!

[cbunt1]

Kerry Von Pohle (9/18/1948) pointing a revolver towards Kevin Eber (10/7/1989) and Jacob Shelton (9/5/1988)

Assuming that these are the birth dates of the individuals, it was two 19-year-old punks versus a 59-year-old. It's also a likely guess that someone throwing beer cans in public is intoxicated -- underage in this case.

9mm revolver

Where can I get one of those?

I should add that although this case turned out well for all involved (including the punks who didn't get shot), past performance is no guarantee of future results. A hostile DA could have prosecuted in this case, even with a low likelihood of obtaining a conviction.

- Jim

FWIW I've also got a Ruger Blackhawk (old 3-screw model) chambered in .357 mag, and a second cylinder to chamber 9mm....

I've seen plenty of Blackhawks, but no others with the 9MM cylinder--I don't believe it to be "rare" per say, just that hardly anyone knows where the second cylinder got off to :)

[BobCat]

First of all, it is probably true that the journalist meant "pistol" and not revolver. While there are and have been revolvers chambered in 9 mm, the caliber is more common in autoloaders and the writer probably used "revolver" as a generic term for "handgun".

Anyway, I learned something from this thread, about the different Ruger models. This thread on the Ruger forum:
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtop ... curity+six" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
has some great pictures and a description of the Speed SIx, Security Six, and Service Six (which is one I did not know about) - all in 9 mm Parabellum.

I hope it is ok to post a link to another forum - wasn't sure, but I've seen it done with no apparent repercussions.

[Abraham]

BobCat,

"Pistol" or "handgun" can be used interchangeably as a generic term for either a revolver or a semi-auto.

[stash]

Charter Arms is suppose to be coming out with a 9mm .40 and 45acp revolver that do not require moon clips. At least one of these (I think the .40) will come out this year.

[Mithras61]

BobCat,

"Pistol" or "handgun" can be used interchangeably as a generic term for either a revolver or a semi-auto.

I agree that many folks use them interchangeably, but I've also noticed that many manufacturers refer to "pistols" for autoloaders and "revolvers" for wheelguns. For example, check out Taurus' website and you'll see what I mean in the top menu.

[BobCat]

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/bullets.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Most people use "pistol" and "handgun" interchangeably, and the NRA Glossary confirms this usage. Others distinguish between pistols and revolvers (as in the link) and use "handgun" for any hand-held firearm.

I'm sorry I got involved in this discussion but I'd still like to have a Ruger Speed Six in 9 mm.

[Abraham]

A semi-auto can be referred to as a pistol or handgun or sidearm or shooting iron. There are other generalized descriptions that serve just as well.

Ditto on revolvers.

None of the above generalized terms serve as specific, sole usage descriptions i.e., pistol must mean semi-auto. No-Suh!

Semi-Auto means semi-auto

Revolver means revolver (or if you must use jargon-speak, wheel gun...ugh)

Now, where have those nits gotten away to...?