CHL Holders, Multiple Assailants - UPDATED

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ELB
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CHL Holders, Multiple Assailants - UPDATED

Post by ELB »

I guess the "Never Again" forum has become the place to post actual accounts.

UPDATE: I originally wrote below that no CHL holders had been killed; however I was going back through the list and realized I was wrong. In Lufkin TX a man was escorting his girlfriend (wife, in some accounts), a restaurant manager, when robbers attacked her in the parking lot as she was taking money to the bank after the restaurant closed. She was wounded in the foot but survived. The CHL holder/defender was shot numerous times, but managed to shoot one of his assailants in the stomach. The wounded robber and his companions were all captured later. It was the third relatively recent robbery at that location.

For little research project, I recently went through 101 news accounts of CHL holders across the country, drawn from Clayton Cramer's Civilian Gun Self-Defense Blog, who defended themselves. This covered a time span of approximately two years, from mid 2007 to present. I did some googling to find more news articles and determine what happened after the initial report of the incident.

I didn't actively track statistics about everything, but I believe the following is correct: Out of those 101 reports, one turned out to be a false report, one CHL holder was prosecuted and acquitted, one CHL holder was arrested but subsequently let go. One CHL holder is currently being prosecuted (this was an odd case -- an cop in civilian clothes and CHL holder got in a "road rage" situation -- the CHL holder says the cop brandished a firearm, and the CHL holder shot him through both legs and an arm. Originally both cop and CHL holder were charged, but charges against the cop were later dropped). One CHL holder later lost his license in a separate incident. One CHL holder had a perfectly "good" defense incident -- but weeks later was arrested on unrelated charges. One case might not directly involve actual "CHL" use -- the defender was a Texas security guard who used a rifle-- and one CHL holder, a security guard in another state, is being sued by the family of his assailant. In one of the cases was the CHL holder was killed while defending his girlfriend from attack; two innocents were killed by an assailant. One CHL holder was shot several times when his assailant opened fire first. I can't think of any other cases where the CHL holder was seriously hurt. One CHL holder shot a bystander in the ankle.

Since several recent incidents involving multiple assailants have been talked about on TexasCHLForum recently, I thought I would post summaries I made of a few of the multiple assailant incidents. There were 37 of these total. These summaries usually have a couple more details than the original post on Mr. Clayton's blog.

Name, age, date of incident, type of incident, city, state:
John Lovell, 71, 6/28/07, Business Robbery with Multiple Assailants, Plantation, FL
At 11:15 pm Mr. Lovell, who has a license to carry a concealed handgun, was finishing his meal in a Subway restaurant when two men with guns entered demanding money. Mr. Lovell surrendered his wallet. However one of the robbers then tried to force Mr. Lovell into a restroom; fearing he was about to be executed, he pulled his handgun and killed one robbery while wounding the other. The wounded robber escaped but was soon caught and later sentenced to 12 years for robbery and murder. Mr. Lovell was not charged with any crime.
Robert Pierce, Jr., 27, 12/6/07, Street Robbery with Multiple Assailants, Easton, PA
Two men, both former convicts, shoved a gun in Mr. Pierce's face while he was walking to his fiancee's mother's house for dinner. They dragged him across a street into darkness, and told him he was going to be shot. Mr. Pierce, who has a license to carry a concealed handgun, drew his revolver and shot one of his assailants in the stomach, causing the assailants to flee. Both assailants were later sentenced to several years in prison. Northampton County District Attorney John Morganelli said, ''Luckily, this time, the citizen won. I think Mr. Pierce acted responsibly."
Hygens Labidou, 49, 12/19/07, Assault (Road Rage) with Mulitple Assailants, Wellington, FL
Two white men blocked the truck of black business owner Hygens Labidou and began shouting racial epithets at him. They threatened him with a knife and tried to enter his truck. Labidou, who has a license to carry a concealed handgun, fired his on assailants, killing one and wounding the other. The wounded man had previous violent and firearms convictions and was on house arrest at the time of the incident. He was charged with felony murder and hate crime.
Nathan R. Zeger, 27, 8/12/09, Street Robbery with Multiple Assailants, Galion, OH
Two men falsely told Mr. Zeger they would sell some construction equipment at a remote site. When Mr. Zegar, who has a license to carry a concealed handgun, arrived one of the men pointed a gun at him and told him to get down. Mr. Zegar dove to the ground, pulled his handgun and fired on his assailant, striking him at least once. The man fired back and fled. Mr. Zeger, who was not injured, left the scene and contacted police. The wounded assailant was later captured and convicted.
Alejandro Salinas, age unknown, 11/10/08, Carjacking with Mulitiple Assailants, Threat to Kill, Edinburg, TX
Mr. Salinas was getting into his truck when one of four men pushed a gun to his neck, stating, "Get out of the truck. I'm going to take it and I'm going to kill you." Mr. Salinas, who has a concealed handgun license, pulled his own gun and shot his assailant twice. The assailant fired once into the air and fell; the other men fled. The assailant, who had a criminal record, was dead on arrival at a local hospital. One of the others has since been identified.
Bruce Allen Williams, 57, 8/2/07, Carjacking with Mulitiple Assailants, Opa Locka, FL
Mr. Williams was at an ATM at 5:30 a.m. when two men got out of a car and demanded the keys to his truck. Mr. Williams departed his truck and handed over the keys, but one of the assailants fired on him anyway. Mr. Williams returned fire, hitting at least of his assailants. The car drove off and the two other men fled on foot. Mr. Williams, who has a license to carry a concealed handgun, was not wounded.
Andy Hartman, Age Unknown, 5/13/09, Home Invasion - No Shots Fired
Mr. Hartman was in his home when two men knocked on his front door and rang the doorbell. When Mr. Hartman did not answer, the two jumped a fence and began kicking the back door. Mr. Hartman, who has a concealed handgun license, armed himself while moving to a back room to call 911. The two would-be intruders kicked the door approximately 20 more times, leaving shortly before police arrived. Mr. Hartman said he was calm because he had recently taken a concealed handgun course and knew what to do: "You know when you can and cannot use the gun, and when it's time to use it you know how to use it.
Note: Mr. Hartman "Twittered" ("tweeted" ?) a description of one of the door-kickers while the door kicking was going on, in addition to calling 911. :confused5
Robert Varderesian, Age Unknown, 12/10/08, Business Robbery with Multiple Assailants, Worcester, MA
Two masked men entered the business, one pushing a revolver into Kevin Varderesian's face. Kevin's brother Robert, who has a license for a concealed handgun, reached around his brother and shot the assailant several times. The other robber fled. The first assailant later died; he had a long history of armed robbery and prison time, and was suspected in at least eight other robberies in the area. The district attorney stated that, “A thorough review of the investigation and evidence has revealed that the store owner acted in self defense and in the defense of another."
Note: The Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts lives in the area, and walked by this business about 15 minutes before the robbery.
Last edited by ELB on Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: CHL Holders, Multiple Assailants

Post by joe817 »

Great posts! Thanks ELB!
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Re: CHL Holders, Multiple Assailants

Post by gemini »

Very interesting. Thanks ELB.
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Re: CHL Holders, Multiple Assailants

Post by LittleGun »

That's a lot of research. Thanks for posting the results.
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Re: CHL Holders, Multiple Assailants

Post by bryang »

Thanks, ELB, for all the great research and for sharing. :thumbs2:

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Re: CHL Holders, Multiple Assailants

Post by bpet »

Each case has multiple assailants and in each case only one CHL victim. Yet, in each case the victim succeeded in defeating the bad guys and survived to tell the tale.

Says something for the gumption of the typical bad guy who thinks he's got the advantage. Mighty brave until lead starts flying his way. Then, wisdom takes control of even the dumbest criminal and as soon as they realize they have lost their advantage, they typically go into "deescalation" mode (if they can).

Good post!
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Re: CHL Holders, Multiple Assailants

Post by joe817 »

Well put bpet. :thumbs2:
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Re: CHL Holders, Multiple Assailants

Post by mr surveyor »

just for grins, what was the maximum number of rounds fired in any of these defensive shootings?


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Re: CHL Holders, Multiple Assailants

Post by Rollin2008 »

Great work ELB.
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Re: CHL Holders, Multiple Assailants

Post by ELB »

mr surveyor wrote:just for grins, what was the maximum number of rounds fired in any of these defensive shootings?

surv
Don't know. The reporting varies quite a bit on this, but usually they just say "multiple shots." There is one account that actually specifies the type of handgun that each party had -- but usually they don't even specify handgun, it is just implied. Comments to one online news story indicate one incident may have had more than 17 rounds fired, but it is hard to say. Just going by memory, most accounts seem to have "multiple" shots fired.

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Re: CHL Holders, Multiple Assailants - UPDATED

Post by mr surveyor »

thanks

that's always a part of the equation I try to analyze for myself. I tend to carry mostly single stack "always, anywhere, any cover style" handguns.... or revolver. Always trying to figure the odds, I guess.


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Re: CHL Holders, Multiple Assailants - UPDATED

Post by surprise_i'm_armed »

ELB: Kudos to you for compiling some good guy stories.

Regarding the last in your list: This Worcester, Mass. incident
received surprisingly favorable coverage for the justice meted out
by the CHL guy for killing the bad guy. I say "surprisingly" because
Mass. media is usually very "anti" gun.

A man from the South commented on this case:
"You act very surprised that a store employee can use deadly
force to kill a robber. Down here in South Carolina and Georgia
we just call it ........Wednesday!"

Well put my 2A appreciator!!

By the way although I don't know what kind of gun the good guy had
in the Worcester liquor store, I know the bad guy's gun was a fully loaded
.357 revolver, but he never got one round off before dying.
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Re: CHL Holders, Multiple Assailants - UPDATED

Post by ELB »

surprise_i'm_armed wrote: ... By the way although I don't know what kind of gun the good guy had
in the Worcester liquor store,...
A couple accounts said, "...where the owner is known to keep a semiautomatic pistol tucked in his waistband..."
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Re: CHL Holders, Multiple Assailants - UPDATED

Post by ELB »

AndyC wrote:
ELB wrote:
ELB wrote:John Lovell, 71...
This sounds like the case mentioned by Massad Ayoob in the recent copy of American Handgunner.
I believe it is the same one. I recall the news acounts I went through mentioned he was both a retired Marine and a retired airline pilot, as does Ayoob's article. The date and cirumstances are the same also.
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