driving on a suspended license?

[schugg]

back in 2006 i got arrested for driving on a suspended license, was leaving for the military 6 weeks after court date and to take it easy on me it was reduced to driving without a valid drivers license if thats any better. but my question is at the time was that a misdemeanor yet? i got a notice today for my chl license saying it was delayed cause they needed the judgement or something from the court about that arrest. started looking into why they would need this and i seen that driving on a suspended license was a misdemeanor! i was never booked into the jail and nothing was done after court except for paying a fine. i didnt think any of this was considered criminal so i never listed it. so just trying to see if at the time it was a misdemeanor and if thats going to leave me disqualified for a CHL. tried reading up on what misdemeanors leave me ineligible, but couldnt find much. already had the court send off the certified papers, ill just have to send them up to the TXDPS when i get them. does anyone know if am i allowed to open this and read it, or will i have to send it straight off to them for it to be good?

[joe817]

Hi schugg, and welcome to the forum. There's a wealth of information here at your fingertips, and a great bunch of people here who will help you on your journey.

If I understand you correctly, the court is sending YOU certified copies of the records of your arrest. What that certified copy they are sending you is what we call a "disposition" of the offense. I'm in Tarrant county and Tarrant county calls it "Final Sentence and Judgement". What ever it is called, it's the official court documents stating its final disposition in the case.

I would highly recommend that you open the envelope(and save it and attach it to your other paperwork), read it and THEN, write out in your own words(typed is preferable) the events leading up to, and including the event itself, and the results of the offense.

It's to your benefit to be totally up front and honest with DPS in their consideration of your application. I also suggest that when you are writing out your explanation you include something to this effect:

"The events and results that I submit to you are the best account I can give to you, in a good faith effort, to present the facts as I remember them."

that's just off the top of my head. use your own words. But be honest and complete.

When I sent in my application, I had 5 of those things....that's right 5 of them...certified dispositions to send to them with explanations. I wound up with 2 type written pages of explanations of misdemeanors that resulted in warrants issued for my arrest and arrests on 3 different occasions. Although all but one was for expired inspection sticker, registration, tail light.

The more words you use, IMO the better off you are. But that's just my way of thinking.

I'm sure others will chime in on their recommendations. And for gosh sakes, if you have questions on this, ask away. We're here to help, and we all learn from each other.

[schugg]

thanks for the quick response! never would have thought of writing additional info when i sent the papers in. so your saying if it is a disqualifying occurrence i can still get through with a good explanation of everything that happen? such as why it got suspended to begin with (cause i was dumb.....going 55mph over at 4am on the interstate with no traffic), why i got arrested for driving with no license (cause i was still dumb, but also lived on my own), and the results were sat in jail for a few hours, got bailed out, went to court payed a nice fine and nothing more, left for the airforce and havent got a single ticket since! took a few years for me to get the point but haha guess the military probably helped to straighten me up. but i will definetly be doing that, thanks for the help again

[joe817]

thanks for the quick response! never would have thought of writing additional info when i sent the papers in. so your saying if it is a disqualifying occurrence i can still get through with a good explanation of everything that happen?

No I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that DPS looks favorably on an application if you "self declare". It makes it appear you are not trying to "hide" anything, or cover something up. An honest explanation of the events may help them to decide in your favor.....of course depending on the offense, and the reason your license was suspended to begin with. I assume you also got certified court documents(dispositions) of the offense that led to the suspension of your license as well? I feel that would be a far greater issue to them in their decision to grant/deny your application. That's my opinion, and I'm no lawyer to be sure.

[dicion]

The section you are interested in is Section 521 of the Texas Transportation code. The relevant sections are as follows:

§ 521.457. DRIVING WHILE LICENSE INVALID. (a) A person
commits an offense if the person operates a motor vehicle on a
highway:
(1) after the person's driver's license has been
canceled under this chapter if the person does not have a license
that was subsequently issued under this chapter;
(2) during a period that the person's driver's license
or privilege is suspended or revoked under any law of this state;
(3) while the person's driver's license is expired if
the license expired during a period of suspension; or
(4) after renewal of the person's driver's license has
been denied under any law of this state, if the person does not have
a driver's license subsequently issued under this chapter.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person is the subject
of an order issued under any law of this state that prohibits the
person from obtaining a driver's license and the person operates a
motor vehicle on a highway.
(c) It is not a defense to prosecution under this section
that the person did not receive actual notice of a suspension
imposed as a result of a conviction for an offense under Section
521.341.
(d) Except as provided by Subsection (c), it is an
affirmative defense to prosecution of an offense, other than an
offense under Section 521.341, that the person did not receive
actual notice of a cancellation, suspension, revocation, or
prohibition order relating to the person's license. For purposes
of this section, actual notice is presumed if the notice was mailed
in accordance with law.
(e) Except as provided by Subsection (f), an offense under
this section is a misdemeanor punishable by:
(1) a fine of not less than $100 or more than $500; and
(2) confinement in county jail for a term of not less
than 72 hours or more than six months.
(f) If it is shown on the trial of an offense under this
section that the person has previously been convicted of an offense
under this section or an offense under Section 601.371(a), as that
law existed before September 1, 2003, the offense is a Class A
misdemeanor.
(g) For purposes of this section, a conviction for an
offense that involves operation of a motor vehicle after August 31,
1987, is a final conviction, regardless of whether the sentence for
the conviction is probated.

The definitions of Misdemeanors is found in Texas Penal code Section 12.

§ 12.23. CLASS C MISDEMEANOR. An individual adjudged
guilty of a Class C misdemeanor shall be punished by a fine not to
exceed $500.

Being that the punishment for the license suspension/without a valid is remanded to less than $500, it appears that it is only a Class C Misdemeanor, and therefore not a disqualifier as specified under the following CHL Law:



Sounds like you're good to go, once you get the info showing it was only a Class C.

[schugg]

thanks for taking the time to get all that info, the offense was in georgia, so hopefully they have the same misdemeanor level for that offense over there! but thats just hoping, everything i see for georgia is saying its a class B, with fees from 500-1000 on the first offense. guess ill find out when i get my papers from them, or when i call monday

The section you are interested in is Section 521 of the Texas Transportation code. The relevant sections are as follows:
.....
.....
Sounds like you're good to go, once you get the info showing it was only a Class C.

[dicion]

Ahh yes, if it was a class B there, then you will have to wait until 5 years have elapsed.

[srothstein]

I was prepared to correct dicion on your offense, and you may need to be aware of this. The offense in Texas is Driving While License Invalid, as was cited, but the offense in 2006 was a class B misdemeanor. it was lowered to class C during the 2007 legislature when we started giving class B tickets for theft and marijuana.

This may affect your application in a bad way. As I understand it, and I could very well be wrong, DPS uses the Texas classification when they look at out of state offenses. Not every state classifies things the same way, or even has the same number of possible misdemeanor and felony levels (I have heard of fourth and fifth degree offenses for example). If they look at the current law for the corresponding offense, they will probably allow the CHL. If they look at the law the way it was written then, they probably will not allow it until the 5 years have passed. If they go by the punishment that was assessed, it can go either way (we all know that you can be given a fine only for an offense where you could have been given jail time). The real bad news is that it appears from a quick review of Georgia law that the two offenses (not having a license at all or driving while it is suspended) are both the equivalent of class B misdemeanors here (both actually require two days in jail as a minimum sentence).

My advice is to do exactly what they asked and get the certified copy of the result and also get with a good lawyer. You may be turned down by DPS and able to appeal it with a good lawyer. You may get lucky and not need the lawyer or appeal, but it is always better to be prepared.

Contact the TSRA for some help in finding a lawyer who might know the CHL laws and appeals process much better than we do.

[schugg]

well i ran a criminal record check on myself to see what it came up with, and nothing was listed on there so ill have to see what the say when i call. didnt see that you said they look at texas classifications for out of state offenses, hopefully thats the case and they will go by what the law currently is. guess ill find out though, any estimates on how long it takes them to finish on their decision if a delay such as this has happened? ive also moved since applying for the license, but i was told to wait til i actually have the license (assuming i get it) to change the address, would that be a good idea, or should i add something in when i send these papers in? as for getting a lawyer, not so sure i want to go do all that? am i going to get in trouble or something bad going to go on my record if i get denied? i want my chl, but not if i have to goto the extent of getting a lawyer just to have it, be alittle more costly then i want to pay. im military so all ive had to pay was the CHL class.

[schugg]

finally got another letter from TXDPS, saying i do not qualify because its a class A misdemeanor, and i "made a material misrepresentation of failed to disclose a material fact". so i either have 30 days to request a hearing and try to fight it, or just not get it....!

[shortysboy09]

Class A misdemeanor is going to be tough to fight...

I'm wondering if you could make a good argument that you were young and on the wrong path before joining the Air Force and learning how to be a productive member of society?

IANAL, but you might want to consult one and see if he/she can use the fact you have straightened up since going to the Air Force. It might work, I know it's worth a shot.

[srothstein]

I would recommend talking with a lawyer about the CHL. I could be wrong, but I understood the qualification to be based on convictions and not arrests or charges. If you were convicted of not having a driver's license, it was only a class C (I think). If you were convicted of Driving While License Invalid (the original charge for a suspended license) then you are going to be disqualified.

Get a certified copy of the court record to make sure of the exact charge. Look at the Transportation Code for the exact violation. An attorney will have the older codes that were in effect back then to look up the violation (sorry but I get rid of mine).

Also check on the final disposition. If it was a class B, you will get your CHL eventually, even if not right now. If it was higher but a suspended sentence, you can get your CHL eventually also. If you did not go to jail or pay a huge fine, it was probably either a class C or a suspended sentence (or a very nice judge).

[rdhetrick]

finally got another letter from TXDPS, saying i do not qualify because its a class A misdemeanor, and i "made a material misrepresentation of failed to disclose a material fact". so i either have 30 days to request a hearing and try to fight it, or just not get it....!

I'm a little unclear on whether you listed the arrest on your original application or not. From the wording above "made a material misrepresentation or failed to discolse a material fact.", it seems like you might not have. This alone is grounds for denial.

It probably doesn't make much difference, other than when the time period passes and you re-apply, don't forget to list the arrest and outcome so they can't deny you for failing to disclose.

[snorri]

finally got another letter from TXDPS, saying i do not qualify because its a class A misdemeanor, and i "made a material misrepresentation of failed to disclose a material fact".

You said you didn't list the conviction on your application so I see their point.

so i either have 30 days to request a hearing and try to fight it, or just not get it....!

Did you ever send the court paperwork to DPS?

If you want to fight this it sounds like you should hire a good lawyer who knows the CHL law.

[schugg]

well never fought the denial, mailed an application for a florida license on the 27th of february and received it about 35 days later. much faster/easier with them, i was talking to them and virginia about applying and both said most traffic related incidents dont matter unless its something like a DUI. so if anyone gets denied for something traffic related try a non-resident florida license! can order the package online, get it within one week, (military requires no training course, just copy of mil id. non military may require a national qualified chl instructor course over just a normal), fill out you 1 page application, notarize it, one picture, prints and send it back. the application and print processing fees you get come out to 107 dollars for a 7 year license. worked out for me due to being military and not having to pay for another course.