Church Carry

[retrieverman]

I know that this topic has been beat to death, and I won't rehash it in this thread. I just want to tell the board what I was told in a "security" meeting after this mornings service. I was invited to the meeting because I am a usher, and I pretty much knew that I would leave mad but went anyway. The man who called the meeting is a cop wannabe, and he used to have some kind of credentials in the homeland security world.

Any way, he informed us that there could be 4 LEO's in our services (not counting him) that were going to be carrying, and that CHL holder were not allowed to carry. A lady asked a question about posting a 30.06, and he said that it wasn't necessary. He went on to inform us that he had talked to our churches insurance carrier, and that our coverage would be dropped if they found out that the church had "authorized" its members to carry on the premises.

Long story short, since this guy doesn't technically have the authority to tell me I can't carry and the church isn't going to post a 30.06, it is going to be business as usual for me, but I left the meeting wanting to find a new church.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

retrieverman:

That was a rather distressing meeting. I found it interesting that a lady brought up the
30.06 question. She must be CHL or at least a 2A friend.

4 LEO's COULD be carrying, but what if all 4 of them decided to go to the lake on the same
day? And since he knows that 4 LEO's could be carrying, does that mean that they are the
"authorized" security force, putting the church in conflict with its insurance carrier?

The guy who set out the rules may be correct saying no 30.06 is needed since he may suspect/know
you carry, and this would be verbal notice. But is he qualified to speak on this issue for the church?

Of course, the attendees in the room might have been given verbal notice, but everyone else who
enters your church will not see any 30.06 notice, so they can carry as many pieces as they can conceal,
as long as they're CHL.

Carry away brother. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

SIA

[retrieverman]

I have known the guy that conducted the meeting for 30 years, and he is pretty much a joke. As far as I know, he did this meeting under his own authority and not that of "the church". I am a deacon, my Dad is a deacon and on the leadership team. Neither of us knew anything about this meeting until I got a letter in the mail.

As far as I know, this guy has no idea that I carry in church, and I didn't say a word in the meeting to draw attention to myself.

It was mentioned that the LEO's are not technically a "security team" for insurance reasons, but they are carrying under the authority of whatever agency they work for.

Basically, the way I see it, this guy, by telling me that I can not carry, is willing to shoulder all the liability to protect me and my family while I am on the premises. I really don't think his pockets are deep enough to do so.

[carlson1]

I am a Pastor and I have never heard of a Church policy dictating CHL's. Church policies are usually very specific too.

[nils]

I never have to worry about this...on Sunday mornings I'm on my couch...and my wife hasn't posted the front door yet..

[longtooth]

Retriverman
I know a church in Diboll that you will be welcome at even if someone knows you carry. Country as a corn crib & growing ministry.

As Carlson1 said above, I never heard of any insurance co excluding CC.

What ever you do that guy is going to continue to be devisive there.

[frazzled]

retrieverman:

That was a rather distressing meeting. I found it interesting that a lady brought up the
30.06 question. She must be CHL or at least a 2A friend.

4 LEO's COULD be carrying, but what if all 4 of them decided to go to the lake on the same
day? And since he knows that 4 LEO's could be carrying, does that mean that they are the
"authorized" security force, putting the church in conflict with its insurance carrier?

The guy who set out the rules may be correct saying no 30.06 is needed since he may suspect/know
you carry, and this would be verbal notice. But is he qualified to speak on this issue for the church?

Of course, the attendees in the room might have been given verbal notice, but everyone else who
enters your church will not see any 30.06 notice, so they can carry as many pieces as they can conceal,
as long as they're CHL.

Carry away brother. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

SIA

-I'd care less if LEOs are carrying. My family is there and unfortunately more than one church has been hit with terrorist style attacks.
-Agreed, his word is not relevant. Only the relevant law is "relevant" on whether or not I could carry.
-I would loudly leave the church. Frankly churches are a dime a dozen.

[retrieverman]

The "leader" received much of his info from someone at Harmony Hill in Lufkin, and yes, he will continue to be divisive.

Longtooth
Thanks for the invitation, but that is a little too far to drive.

[longtooth]

Yes & I was really joking but you are sure welcome to come for an occasional visit.

I am well aware of the Empire you spoke of in Lufkin.

[LongHairedRedneck]

Carry away brother. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

[rldeanjr]

I'm a newbie at this, so if I'm in the wrong place, please redirect me.

I am a pastor and have always been told (by LEOs or by my CHL instructor) that it was legal for CHL licensees to carry at a place of worship unless the church posted. Yesterday one of my CHL members sent me this link http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... htm#46.035 where the statute appears to read that it is illegal for a CHL licensee to carry under Sec. 46.035.(b)(6). However, in looking around this discussion group it seems that all the comments suggest that it is legal to carry at a place of worship.

Would someone please clarify this for me and if possible direct me to specific sources for documentation.

Thanks

Robert

[Keith B]

I'm a newbie at this, so if I'm in the wrong place, please redirect me.

I am a pastor and have always been told (by LEOs or by my CHL instructor) that it was legal for CHL licensees to carry at a place of worship unless the church posted. Yesterday one of my CHL members sent me this link http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... htm#46.035 where the statute appears to read that it is illegal for a CHL licensee to carry under Sec. 46.035.(b)(6). However, in looking around this discussion group it seems that all the comments suggest that it is legal to carry at a place of worship.

Would someone please clarify this for me and if possible direct me to specific sources for documentation.

Thanks

Robert

First of, welcome to the forum!

It is a common mistake. Keep reading farther down to section (i) where it states you have to post 30.06. This was added instead of changin the whole other verbiage of the seciton. Makes it confusing if you don't read it all.

[joe817]

I'm a newbie at this, so if I'm in the wrong place, please redirect me.

I am a pastor and have always been told (by LEOs or by my CHL instructor) that it was legal for CHL licensees to carry at a place of worship unless the church posted. Yesterday one of my CHL members sent me this link http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... htm#46.035 where the statute appears to read that it is illegal for a CHL licensee to carry under Sec. 46.035.(b)(6). However, in looking around this discussion group it seems that all the comments suggest that it is legal to carry at a place of worship.

Would someone please clarify this for me and if possible direct me to specific sources for documentation.

Thanks. Robert

Hi Robert, and welcome to the forum! There's a wealth of information here at your fingertips and a wonderful group of people to get to know.

If you continue reading towards the end of PC 46.035 (on P.41 of manual) there is the "escape clause" in section i: "(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06. "

So unless notice is given either verbally, or under Section 30.06, you are correct, concealed carry in a Church is not prohibited.

[ELB]

I'm a newbie at this, so if I'm in the wrong place, please redirect me.

I am a pastor and have always been told (by LEOs or by my CHL instructor) that it was legal for CHL licensees to carry at a place of worship unless the church posted. Yesterday one of my CHL members sent me this link http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... htm#46.035 where the statute appears to read that it is illegal for a CHL licensee to carry under Sec. 46.035.(b)(6). However, in looking around this discussion group it seems that all the comments suggest that it is legal to carry at a place of worship.

Would someone please clarify this for me and if possible direct me to specific sources for documentation.

Thanks

Robert

You have to keep reading farther down the page in the same statutory section. Sec. 46.035. b (6) says it is an offense to carry on the premises of a church; BUT in the same section and paragraph, sub-para (i) provides an exception:

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

So unless the church authorities decide to ban CHL'ers and follow Sec 30.06 with respect to notification, it is legal to carry a concealed handgun in a church under the authority of your CHL.

It is also within American tradition -- at one time in this land, church members were required to bring their guns to church...

[joe817]

You beat me to it again KeithB. You must type faster than I can. Either that or I'm more wordy.