Carry in HOME daycare?

[Syntax360]

My friend and his wife are starting a daycare service in their home and he was told by the licensing agency that he would not be allowed to carry his CCW inside his own home during business hours. For the life of me, I can't recall anything in the manual singling out daycares as off limits (unless, of course, a 30.06 sign is posted).

He was told that any weapons in his home would need to be stored in a safe, with the ammunition being stored elsewhere in the home in a seperate safe. This doesn't seem right to me? Surely someone here has some kind of experience with the issue and can shed some light on the matter? Thanks!

[cyphur]

What is the licensing agency?

[Charles L. Cotton]

A daycare center that is not also a school is not statutorily off-limits. I presume they are licensed by the Tex. Dept. of State Health Services, but that's just a guess. I'd really like to know who did the home survey and the statutory support for this claim.

Chas.

Update: It doesn't appear that TDSH is the licensing authority, but I'll keep looking.

[Glockamolie]

http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Child_Care/ ... efault.asp

From the FAQ on that site:

"I want to operate a licensed child-care center in my home. Will this be possible after September 1, 2003?

After September 1, 2003, operations licensed as a child-care center must provide care at a location other than the caregiver’s own home. To be considered as operating in a location other than the caregiver’s own home, the location where care is being provided must be at a different address from the permit holder’s residence. (§746.107)"

Hmmmmmm...

[Syntax360]

Interesting...

Thanks for the replies, guys. I will refer him to this thread and try to get him to join the forum - that outta be a requirement for getting your CHL . I'm sure he will be able to answer your questions on the matter better than I.

[KoYoKo]

I'm Syntax's friend who is trying to start the daycare. No one has done the home survey yet we are still in the startup phase. My wife just went to the orientation the other day and was told about this. Childcare in Texas is regualted by DFPS (Texas department of Family and Protective Services). When I call them and ask about starting up a daycare in my home and that I have a CHL and I tell them how this might cause me a problem of being able to enter my own home i get this robot answer.

"§746.3707

Are firearms or other weapons allowed at my child-care center?

Texas Administrative Code, Title 40. Social Services and Assistance

Part XIX. Texas Department of Protective and Regulatory Services

Chapter 746, Minimum Standards for Child-Care Centers

Subchapter S, Safety Practices

Division 1, Safety Precautions

(a) Law enforcement officials who are trained and certified to carry a firearm on duty may have firearms or ammunition on the premises of the child-care center.

(b) For all other persons, firearms, hunting knives, bows and arrows, and other weapons are prohibited on the premises of the child-care center, unless the child-care center is also your residence.

(c) Firearms, hunting knives, bows and arrows, and other weapons kept on the premises of a child-care center located in your home must remain in a locked cabinet inaccessible to children during all hours of operation.

(d) Ammunition must be kept in a separate locked cabinet and inaccessible to children during all hours of operation."

Now Im not a LEO but i am trained and cetified by the state to be able to carry a firearm and ammo. Also, i consider myself always on duty.

In answer to Glockamolie that is the law for a "Day Care Center" which is different than a "Registered Child-Care Home". but thank you for you input.

To Syntax thanks again for posting this and leading me to this forum. I'm definatly with you on the fact that it should be required to have a CHL. Now get back to work and stop playing on the computer.

[longtooth]

Welcome KoYoKo. "Man that is hard typing". Glad to see someone sticking to what is right rather than letting them convince you otherwise. Hope it works for you.

[txinvestigator]

I'm Syntax's friend who is trying to start the daycare. No one has done the home survey yet we are still in the startup phase. My wife just went to the orientation the other day and was told about this. Childcare in Texas is regualted by DFPS (Texas department of Family and Protective Services). When I call them and ask about starting up a daycare in my home and that I have a CHL and I tell them how this might cause me a problem of being able to enter my own home i get this robot answer.

"§746.3707

Are firearms or other weapons allowed at my child-care center?

Texas Administrative Code, Title 40. Social Services and Assistance

Part XIX. Texas Department of Protective and Regulatory Services

Chapter 746, Minimum Standards for Child-Care Centers

Subchapter S, Safety Practices

Division 1, Safety Precautions

(a) Law enforcement officials who are trained and certified to carry a firearm on duty may have firearms or ammunition on the premises of the child-care center.

(b) For all other persons, firearms, hunting knives, bows and arrows, and other weapons are prohibited on the premises of the child-care center, unless the child-care center is also your residence.

(c) Firearms, hunting knives, bows and arrows, and other weapons kept on the premises of a child-care center located in your home must remain in a locked cabinet inaccessible to children during all hours of operation.

(d) Ammunition must be kept in a separate locked cabinet and inaccessible to children during all hours of operation."

Now Im not a LEO but i am trained and cetified by the state to be able to carry a firearm and ammo. Also, i consider myself always on duty.

In answer to Glockamolie that is the law for a "Day Care Center" which is different than a "Registered Child-Care Home". but thank you for you input.

To Syntax thanks again for posting this and leading me to this forum. I'm definatly with you on the fact that it should be required to have a CHL. Now get back to work and stop playing on the computer.

The law here applies to YOUR license to have the child care facility. If you have it at a location away from your home, you cannot keep the type of weapons listed on the premises.

If it is your home, then you CAN have those weapons, but you must lock em up when kids are there. That makes a lot of sense to me.

However, those laws have no effect on other persons entering your facility.

Make sense?

[KoYoKo]

The law here applies to YOUR license to have the child care facility. If you have it at a location away from your home, you cannot keep the type of weapons listed on the premises.

If it is your home, then you CAN have those weapons, but you must lock em up when kids are there. That makes a lot of sense to me.

However, those laws have no effect on other persons entering your facility.

Make sense?

Yes, this makes perfect sense to me. However my problem is that I am setting it up in my home. Also, the hours for the day care are from 6:30am-6:30pm.

There are two main reasons why this poses a problem for me.

1. I leave for work at about 7:30 am and carry my gun with me.
2. I return from work at about 5:30 pm and i just happen to be carrying my gun home too.

These are my two main problems aside from the fact that I have already gone through the work of getting a CHL so I can legaly cary my handgun and have more than a slight problem with another state agency trying to tell me I cant.

I believe that one law must outweigh the other. My question is which. I don't even mind if you guys just say you dont know but any info you may be able to provide to point me in the right direction will be greatly appreciated.

[Commander]

It appears the law is clear and as the others, I understand. With several small children in the house, guns must be secured while they are there.

You may want to consider getting a gun safe that can be secured in your vehicle and store your carry gun in your vehicle.

[txinvestigator]

The law here applies to YOUR license to have the child care facility. If you have it at a location away from your home, you cannot keep the type of weapons listed on the premises.

If it is your home, then you CAN have those weapons, but you must lock em up when kids are there. That makes a lot of sense to me.

However, those laws have no effect on other persons entering your facility.

Make sense?

Yes, this makes perfect sense to me. However my problem is that I am setting it up in my home. Also, the hours for the day care are from 6:30am-6:30pm.

There are two main reasons why this poses a problem for me.

1. I leave for work at about 7:30 am and carry my gun with me.
2. I return from work at about 5:30 pm and i just happen to be carrying my gun home too.

These are my two main problems aside from the fact that I have already gone through the work of getting a CHL so I can legaly cary my handgun and have more than a slight problem with another state agency trying to tell me I cant.

I believe that one law must outway the other. My question is which. I don't even mind if you guys just say you dont know but any info you may be able to provide to point me in the right direction will be greatly appreciated.

It appears to me that your day care license is in jeopardy if you fail to keep your handgun locked in a cabinet while children are there.

The laws don't "outweigh" each other. You have asked the state for a license in a heavily regulated industry. If the information I have read in this thread is complete and accurate, it appears to me that you would be violating the licensing regulations to strap on your carry gun and leave while children are there.

[bauerdj]

As I follow this thread you are not concerned with carrying on your premises while the day care center is in operation, but rather your being able to carry when LEAVING the premises and RETURNING after work.

If this is the case I am wondering if you carried the firearm to and from the house in a locked case and waited until you were in your car to holster it if this would meet the requirement of the law.

I think this is an area where you need to seek legal advice.

Dave B.

[one eyed fatman]

I think this is an area where you need to seek legal advice.

Best advice given here. Take to a lawyer.

[KoYoKo]

Best advice given here. Take to a lawyer.

Thanks guys for all the advise. Anybody know of a good lawyer in the DFW area specializing in Firearm laws?

Also, as I understood from Syntax a moderator or administrator of this forum is infact a lawyer. Could said person please offer me a way to contact you or provide a reference to someone that maybe able to assist me in this matter.

*Note* My favorite advise was:

If this is the case I am wondering if you carried the firearm to and from the house in a locked case and waited until you were in your car to holster it if this would meet the requirement of the law.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Best advice given here. Take to a lawyer.

Thanks guys for all the advise. Anybody know of a good lawyer in the DFW area specializing in Firearm laws?

Also, as I understood from Syntax a moderator or administrator of this forum is infact a lawyer. Could said person please offer me a way to contact you or provide a reference to someone that maybe able to assist me in this matter.

*Note* My favorite advise was:

If this is the case I am wondering if you carried the firearm to and from the house in a locked case and waited until you were in your car to holster it if this would meet the requirement of the law.

I agree with txinvestigator that this is a rule issue that applies to you the facility owner and I agree with Dave that transporting your firearm to and from your car in a locked case during business hours would probably put you in compliance with the rule. I also believe it violates the State preemption statute. Before anyone thinks I'm against securing guns in a daycare facility, that's not my position. We already have a "safe storage" statute that would apply to daycare facilities, so there is no need for a rule that violates preemption. I have one reservation about this position and that comes from my lack of knowledge about any enabling statute the Legislature may have passed that would provide the authority to promulgate such a rule in the TAC. I'll try to check on this, if/when I get back to a normal life after moving the law office!

As for a Dallas area attorney, I'd call Gene A. Hamm; (972) 661-5114. He's very knowledgeable about firearms law and has been the driving force behind a firearms law seminar for attorneys for the last 3 years or so.

Chas.