51% Alcohol Question

[bzo311]

Have a question about 51% Alcohol rule. Tonight I dined in a restaurant and I figured it was a legal place to carry; there was not any notice on the door of the establishment (no 30.06,no 51% signs). However, this restaurant has a bar area inside and I noticed there was a 51% sign in that area. So, the question is, is it lawful to carry in that restaurant, but NOT the bar area? , or is the entire establishment off limits?

Thanks in advance!

[DoubleActionCHL]

That's an interesting one. I'd like to know more about the restaurant.

There are several possibilities here. The most likely possibility is the business is not 51%, and the sign is improperly posted. However, the bar and restaurant may separate businesses, in which case the bar area (there should be a distinct boundary) is off limits, but the restaurant is not. It could also be possible that the restaurant does not sell more food than alcohol and is, in fact, a 51% business.

To be prudent, you definitely don't want to carry in the bar area, and you should probably consider not carrying in the restaurant area itself, unless you can determine that the bar and restaurant are separate. Chances are, the business is not off limits, but you'd be facing a stiff penalty if you're mistaken.

If this is a restaurant that you intend to frequent, take a look at their liquor license (which should also be conspicuously posted), or contact TABC to ask if the business is classified as 51%. If not, you might notify them and the business that they are posting improperly. Otherwise, eat elsewhere!

[gemini]

Restaurant, yes. Bar area, no.
IMHO.
IANAL, IANBM

DoubleActionCHL types much faster than I do......

[flb_78]

What's the name of the establishment and what town is it located in?

[texas1234]

It is not possible to consider the bar area 51 percent and the restaraunt okay. If the establishments derives 51 percent of their sales from alcohol then the entire place if 51. For example Bass Pros restaraunts post and an "unlicensed posession" poster that is tacked to the wall behind the the bar. Therefore they are declaring that the unlicensed possession of a weapon is illegal not the licensed possesion. I am currently in Dallas in a Dry Area and the conveniences stores have the Unlicensed Possesion of a weapon poster on their door and they dont even sell alcohol which is required by TABC.

I have seen places that post 51s that derive 1 percent of their sales volume in alcohol.

IMHO if unless you are dealing with a federal or state area that has the potential for someone to really care, concealed is concealed. Remember before the CHL license people used to conceal carry anyway. Its better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[bzo311]

The restaurant is called La Casona located in Rosenberg, TX and the poster read "The licensed or unlicensed carry of a firearm...". So they prohibit ANY kind of carry.

This restaurant has 2 seating areas and the one bar area and serves a very large array of food; basically it gives off the impresin of a rrestaurant with a bar, not the other way around, however I know that is moot if they bring in 51%+ sales in from alcohol but I seriously doubt it.

I would love to not go back there again and call it settled but it is my in-laws favorite place to go... >.<

I will play it safe and leave it in the car on my excrutiating visit. ;)

[DoubleActionCHL]

The restaurant is called La Casona located in Rosenberg, TX and the poster read "The licensed or unlicensed carry of a firearm...". So they prohibit ANY kind of carry.

Again, checking the liquor license (RED=51%, BLUE=OK to carry) will give you the closest thing to a definitive answer. If it's not 51%, the presence of the 51% sign could still get you into trouble; at least temporarily.

[ghostrider]

It would be so much easier if our CHL licenses just said "valid anywhere, anytime. See 2nd Amendment".

I'm glad we have this forum to discuss the more confusing aspects of what is currently "allowed" (or not).

[DoubleActionCHL]

It would be so much easier if our CHL licenses just said "valid anywhere, anytime. See 2nd Amendment".

I'm glad we have this forum to discuss the more confusing aspects of what is currently "allowed" (or not).

Everything is allowed, except for those things that are not!

That's the frustration most students have when they read certain sections of the Texas Penal Code; everything is written in the negative -- things you can't do.

Wouldn't be great if the "shall not be infringed" phrase actually meant something? I've always wondered why the 2nd amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America allows us to carry just about everywhere except Federal (U.S. Government) Facilities or Properties (with the tenuous exception of National Parks).

[srothstein]

It is possible for a restaurant and a bar to bee in the same physical premises and have one be 51% and the other not covered, but it is highly unlikely. TABC will issue only one primary license to any one business at one location and this would make the difference. For example, if the bar is a separate business from the restaurant, the bar could be 51% and have the rest of the restaurant diagrammed off its license. But then no one in the restaurant could have any drinks from the bar, so it is is very rare (if it is ever done).

I looked and the license is int he name of the restaurant. To me, this makes it almost impossible for the restaurant to truly be a 51% but you need to look at the license to be sure. The alternative is to call the Fort Bend office of TABC and ask them, then point out that the signs are posted impoerly anyway (need to be at the entrance to the building). Within 60 days, an agent will go to the location, check it out, and get the proepr signs posted properly.

[bevans]

There is a car show in Rosenburg every april that I show my car in called the spring fling so we eat there also . The bar last yr had no signage that we could see and the restaraunt had an old dirty THE UNLIC. CARRY sign so I have no idea whats going on there.....but knowing the group i hang with we will be there one night that weekend seeing as how the place is a sponser of our car show.

[E.Marquez]

Same issue different location BJ's Brew house in Temple.
TABC shows they have a FB Food and Beverage permit and a LB - Mixed Beverage Late Hours Permit.

There is no wall or complete barrier to movement from the "Restaurant" side to the "bar" side. In fact the "To Go" area is on the "Bar" side and next to the 51% sign..

FB - FOOD AND BEVERAGE CERTIFICATE
A Food and Beverage Certificate may be issued to the holder of a Beer Retailer's On-Premise Permit or Wine and Beer Retailer's Permit if food service is the primary business being operated on the licensed premise or to the holder of a Mixed Beverage Permit or Private Club Permit if food service is available on the premises and the gross receipts of alcoholic beverages do not exceed 50% of total gross receipts.

IANAL.. so it is a question not a statement...but I read the language in that description above to mean an open room with common access to all areas, no walls or door ways that TABC says is permitted for FB (ie 50% or less) CAN NOT be signed as 51%.

If I'm missing something in my understanding please show...
I have read 30 or so threads on the topic here and not finding an explanation that supports the ability to legally and with the informed consent of TABC segregate an open room into 51 % and FB

[srothstein]

You have it exactly right, except possibly not going quite far enough. The license covers the whole premises and the FB guarantees the 51% sign is wrong. You can carry anywhere in the restaurant that is open to the public, including the bar area.