How are these questions about carrying possible?

[grumble]

<RANT ON>
I'm going to try to not be too harsh here, but I have seen 3 posts in 3 days about "Can I carry at such and such professional sporting event?"

The fact that these questions are posted makes me very concerned about the quality of instruction that some people are getting. My instructor beat these sort of things into our heads through class. Then again, maybe it's not the instructor, maybe it's the student - who knows.

I've also seen a few posts by new CHL's stating either how quickly the dispute resolution section was covered, or how the student thought that the dispute resolution section was a "complete waste of time.." I mean, this is one of THE most important "nuggets" that a CHL can have at his disposal.

My class took 12 1/2 hours. This included range qualification, paperwork and a 45-min lunch period for 8 people. I'm not saying we learned "everything there is to know" (that's what this forum is for - - but boy we sure covered the "stuff of immediate importance."

I will say that my instructor told one particular student, in no uncertain terms, within the first hour that "either you pay better attention and take this seriously or you can leave now without your CHL paperwork, and without a refund." I will guarantee you, if my instructor didn't think you "got it," you wouldn't have completed the class.

</RANT OFF>

[cougartex]

100%

[davidtx]

My class was also about 12 hours and it sounds like our instructors might be related. He was very thorough. BUT - a day or so later and I certainly couldn't recite all of the places where I couldn't carry. I think some folks forget sporting events, other forget something else. When you aggregate all of our questions on this board, it looks worse than it is.

[A-R]

I've also seen a few posts by new CHL's stating either how quickly the dispute resolution section was covered, or how the student thought that the dispute resolution section was a "complete waste of time.." I mean, this is one of THE most important "nuggets" that a CHL can have at his disposal.

I agree with everything you wrote, but especially this part (above). I've had two renewals in additio to my original class in 1998. I don't remember details, but I do remember the second instructor doing a much better job of emphasizing this portion and letting us know how much better of we'd be to avoid a confrontation if at all possible than to ever pull a gun.

[gigag04]

Maybe it also speaks to people's refusal to seek answers for themselves in the penal code :)

[father]

The fact that these questions are posted makes me very concerned about the quality of instruction that some people are getting. My instructor beat these sort of things into our heads through class. Then again, maybe it's not the instructor, maybe it's the student - who knows.

Could be either one. I do know that when people talk about bad info they get from instructors, the instructor's name is censored on this board. It perpetuates the problem but I assume there's a good reason to let bad instructors keep spreading ignorance or it could be stopped pretty quick in the internet age.

[Dragonfighter]

I would say the issue of libel comes up. Say a guy comes on the web site, you don't know him and he says "such and such is a bad instructor because (insert justification)". He is allowed to post the name and the instructor's business tanks. Turns out the problem was the student and not the instructor and this guy's (gal's) reputation is irreparably damaged. BOOM! This board (Charles) is at least material in the Libel suit and the guy is still out of a business.

So, IMHO, it is best if someone thinks they have a bad instructor to report it to DPS through channels and let them sort it out. It is too easy for someone with a burr under their saddle, legit or otherwise, to ruin someone with loose words. This board has a good policy I believe.

[mymojo]

On a different note, its a great thing that we have a resource like this to revisit the points we missed - or that weren't covered.

I've got a serious case of A.D.D. (not a joke) and no matter how hard I tried there was no way I could have absorbed everything Dave (Dave is my brain) said over the course of 10 hours. That being said, I had a DPS officer tell me I had a really good instructor, so I musta caught at least part of it. ;)

IMO, the class is just the beginning, or should be. I've learned more on the subject from reading this board than anyone could ever possibly hope to get out of a one day seminar.

[chartreuse]

I would say the issue of libel comes up. Say a guy comes on the web site, you don't know him and he says "such and such is a bad instructor because (insert justification)". He is allowed to post the name and the instructor's business tanks. Turns out the problem was the student and not the instructor and this guy's (gal's) reputation is irreparably damaged. BOOM! This board (Charles) is at least material in the Libel suit and the guy is still out of a business.

Actually, no. Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act provides immunity for the operators of sites such as this from suit for defamation over comments posted by users of the site.

That's not to say it isn't a good policy anyway, we are a (relatively) small community after all, just wanted to keep things straight.

[joe817]

Maybe it also speaks to people's refusal to seek answers for themselves in the penal code :)

Well put.

[Aggiedad]

I've got a serious case of A.D.D. (not a joke) and no matter how hard I tried there was no way I could have absorbed everything Dave (Dave is my brain) said over the course of 10 hours. That being said, I had a DPS officer tell me I had a really good instructor, so I musta caught at least part of it. ;)

Dave was the instructor for my wife's first CHL class two years ago and my renewal class last year. Took my original CHL class at the same place in '94 (and all subsequent renewals). Very thorough and professional.

[grumble]

We "may" have had the same instructor -

On a different note, its a great thing that we have a resource like this to revisit the points we missed - or that weren't covered.

I've got a serious case of A.D.D. (not a joke) and no matter how hard I tried there was no way I could have absorbed everything Dave (Dave is my brain) said over the course of 10 hours. That being said, I had a DPS officer tell me I had a really good instructor, so I musta caught at least part of it. ;)

IMO, the class is just the beginning, or should be. I've learned more on the subject from reading this board than anyone could ever possibly hope to get out of a one day seminar.

[mactex]

I'm going to take the road less traveled in in this debate. The school I went to was more like a puppy mill interested in getting people through the course and the instructor did not teach the law for the most part. Most of the course was taught by putting on videos about being observant and not allowing yourself to be surprised. I've had to learn all the stuff normally taught in class through reading and visiting forums. Because of this I always point people to other instructors in my area.

[shootthesheet]

So, what can we do but to encourage those asking quesions to spend more time in the handbook and on this board. We know some people simply do the minimum at most everything they do to include CHL. We also know that some are just lazy and don't want to look for themselves. We also know some may have no idea where to find the info. Either way, we should encourage "those who should know" to spend more time learning what they need to know and give them reasons why it is so important. And, do it in a patient and understanding way no matter what we think. We don't want to discourage anyone about CHL or about this site.

[SlowDave]

It may not be very appropriate to tell about the bad instructors on here, but at least if someone asks for a recommended instructor in an area, people can make their recommendations or conversely, NOT recommend (i.e. not respond to request). That serves almost the same purpose w/o the negativity and potentials for trouble. I've seen that work well. Only problem is that a lot of people don't find this site until AFTER they get their license. Maybe we should be suggesting to people considering that they get on here and ask for instructor recommendations, esp. if you don't feel that your instructor is worthy of recommendation.