Trip to NH

[davidtx]

It looks like we are going to drive to NH and spend July so we can help with my daughter's wedding preparations. The NH application seems pretty straightforward, but I'm having trouble with the "reason". They list "Protection" and "All Proper Purposes" and the instructions say you can list one or more of these reasons. Wouldn't "All Proper Purposes" subsume "Protection"? I wonder why this is worded this way.

I'll just have to hurry through MD, NY, CT & MA. It sure would be nice to get a Mass non-resident carry so I could carry while visiting friends there - has anybody ever gone through this process successfully?

edited to finish the post

[CWOOD]

Hi, David
Nice to hear from you again.

A few years back I got my NewHampshire license because I anticipated a need to travel through some states which the NH license covered but which did not then honor Texas CHL (they now do). It was very easy, cheap and quick. It was under three weeks turn-around time. "All proper purposes" worked just fine.

Regards,
Carl

[Quahog]

Hi, David
Nice to hear from you again.

A few years back I got my NewHampshire license because I anticipated a need to travel through some states which the NH license covered but which did not then honor Texas CHL (they now do). It was very easy, cheap and quick. It was under three weeks turn-around time. "All proper purposes" worked just fine.

Regards,
Carl

I too am planning a drive up to ME this summer and I have family in MA. Looking at the reciprocity map, it seemed like there were a handful of states that would be problematic. Perhaps I haven't done a thorough enough analysis but it didn't look to me like I could be 100% legal. Your post on getting a NH license (that might have reciprocity with certain states) got me thinking more about this.

Do you believe that NH (or any other state) offers a license that solves this issue?

Thanks in advance.

[davidtx]

Hi, David
Nice to hear from you again.

A few years back I got my NewHampshire license because I anticipated a need to travel through some states which the NH license covered but which did not then honor Texas CHL (they now do). It was very easy, cheap and quick. It was under three weeks turn-around time. "All proper purposes" worked just fine.

Regards,
Carl

I too am planning a drive up to ME this summer and I have family in MA. Looking at the reciprocity map, it seemed like there were a handful of states that would be problematic. Perhaps I haven't done a thorough enough analysis but it didn't look to me like I could be 100% legal. Your post on getting a NH license (that might have reciprocity with certain states) got me thinking more about this.

Do you believe that NH (or any other state) offers a license that solves this issue?

Thanks in advance.

AFAICT, NY and MA are still going to be problems. I won't go through NJ.

[remington79]

The problem with New England is that no one honors each other's permits. You'd have to have one for every state you want to go through.

[davidtx]

I thought that I'd be OK when driving through NY and MA if I put the gun and ammo in separate locked boxes in the trunk. After reading http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/federal/read.aspx?id=59, it looks like that isn't going to work. If I'm reading this correctly, I'll be making this entire trip unarmed. Yikes!

[Quahog]

I thought that I'd be OK when driving through NY and MA if I put the gun and ammo in separate locked boxes in the trunk. After reading http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/federal/read.aspx?id=59, it looks like that isn't going to work. If I'm reading this correctly, I'll be making this entire trip unarmed. Yikes!

You and I both, dude. I've been researching too and can't seem to find a way to legally remained armed while in those states. I have family I plan to visit in MA so there's not a lot of options.

Thinking out loud here, have you considered finding a dealer that's close by where you could securely keep your "heat" then pick up later when you are legal again? At least that way, you'd have the benefit of being armed for a large part of the trip.

[davidtx]

I thought that I'd be OK when driving through NY and MA if I put the gun and ammo in separate locked boxes in the trunk. After reading http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/federal/read.aspx?id=59, it looks like that isn't going to work. If I'm reading this correctly, I'll be making this entire trip unarmed. Yikes!

You and I both, dude. I've been researching too and can't seem to find a way to legally remained armed while in those states. I have family I plan to visit in MA so there's not a lot of options.

Thinking out loud here, have you considered finding a dealer that's close by where you could securely keep your "heat" then pick up later when you are legal again? At least that way, you'd have the benefit of being armed for a large part of the trip.

That's an idea, but it would have to be in PA. Alternatively, I could buy a gun in NH and leave it with my son. Then I could at least carry while I'm in NH (assuming I ever put the app for a NH CHL in the mail).

[davidtx]

I read and re-read all the postings I could find about FOPA '86 and how it is routinely ignored in NY and MA. I ended up chickening out and left the guns at home. I'm on the third day out of Texas, visiting my sister and her family in TN and feeling nekked and twitchy. I can't wait to get to NH and see my kids, but I'll be really relieved to get back to Texas and completely dressed.

[Quahog]

As uncomfortable as you may feel, at least you're legal. I did the same thing... left the guns at home and just returned from two weeks driving up to Maine. Funny thing is, I rarely ever encounter LEOs but on this trip, I did twice. Once when some stupid chick who was playing with her cellphone rear-ended me and again in LA when I got stopped for speeding. Both of the LEOs were very cool and didn't even ask me if I was carrying but both times, I did hand over my CHL with my license. The cop that stopped me from speeding took one look at my CHL and said "take it slower and be safe" and handed my stuff back letting me go with no ticket. Whew!

[davidtx]

As uncomfortable as you may feel, at least you're legal. I did the same thing... left the guns at home and just returned from two weeks driving up to Maine. Funny thing is, I rarely ever encounter LEOs but on this trip, I did twice. Once when some stupid chick who was playing with her cellphone rear-ended me and again in LA when I got stopped for speeding. Both of the LEOs were very cool and didn't even ask me if I was carrying but both times, I did hand over my CHL with my license. The cop that stopped me from speeding took one look at my CHL and said "take it slower and be safe" and handed my stuff back letting me go with no ticket. Whew!

I could have easily taken the steps necessary to be legal under FOPA '86 when crossing NY and MA and could have gotten a NH non-resident permit. BUT - according to what I've read, NY and MA routinely ignore FOPA '86 and arrest you anyway. You have a good chance of beating the rap, but the ride and the time in jail is expensive and won't help your blood pressure.

What are the odds of running afoul of this vs needing my weapon on this trip? I don't know - I can only hope I made the right decision.

[chasfm11]

I could have easily taken the steps necessary to be legal under FOPA '86 when crossing NY and MA and could have gotten a NH non-resident permit. BUT - according to what I've read, NY and MA routinely ignore FOPA '86 and arrest you anyway. You have a good chance of beating the rap, but the ride and the time in jail is expensive and won't help your blood pressure.

What are the odds of running afoul of this vs needing my weapon on this trip? I don't know - I can only hope I made the right decision.

I'm pretty new here and have a couple of questions:

1. FOPA'86 Is this the Federal firearm transport guidelines?
2. What is it that you were reading that said NY and MA arrest you anyway?

There may be times when I have to drive through NY and even NJ. My plan was, before entering those States, to take the gun completely apart and put the parts in a locked safe, storing the ammo in a separate locked box. One of the reasons that I keep asking the question about whether or not the out of State LEOs can "see" the CHL is that I would have no plan on showing them the Texas plastic if I was reasonably convinced that they couldn't find it out on their own. Outside of a reciprocal State, I'm just another citizen transporting an unloaded, disassembled and locked firearm. Since NJ doesn't recognize the CHL, there is no need to wave it in their face at a traffic stop - or is there?

I have an advantage in that we travel by RV. There are lots of compartments and it would take hours for them to search every compartment thoroughly I cannot imagine that happening unless something triggers the search - like the wants and warrants pull showing up the Texas CHL.

[davidtx]

1. FOPA'86 Is this the Federal firearm transport guidelines?

Yes. The Firearm Owner's Protection Act.
As I understand your situation (from your other thread), FOPA '86 wouldn't apply to you as you are stopping in NJ, not transiting through it.

2. What is it that you were reading that said NY and MA arrest you anyway?

I'm not where I originally saw it, but if you spend some time searching the northeastshooters.com, you'll find lots of discussion on this. I just got back from the first of three trips (in four months) to NH yesterday and have been doing more research. I really didn't like driving 2,000 miles unarmed. My wife was forced off the road in VA in a road rage incident.

You need to read carefully and sort out the FOPA '86 AIRPORT issues from the "drive through the state issues". I finally realized that the MA CHL holders think they'll get arrested if they drive thru NY and the NY CHL holders are convinced they will get arrested while driving through MA. One of the posters has repeatedly asked for documentation on anyone that has been arrested for driving through the state. I found a route that avoids MA and only adds about 50 miles to the trip, so I'm considering relying on FOPA '86 for the next trip.

[chasfm11]

Thanks for the reply, DavidTX.

I've done some more reading since my post which you answered. I, too, came to the conclusion that the airport is one set of circumstances for NJ and NY and that transit in both States is another one.

For us, NJ is never a destination. It might be a stop on the way as it was on our last trip but our destination was Mystic, CT and all of our travel information showed that. We had reservations, maps, etc. The argument gets weaker, I admit, if I do something besides stop for fuel in NJ. As it turned out on the trip, we parked the RV in a rest stop on the NY Throughway and had lunch with friends from NJ I didn't have a pistol with me at the time. As one of the other posters pointed out on another thread, I probably had a better chance of getting hit by lightning than having the NY LEOs develop probable cause and search our RV, looking for a firearm.

I would still feel that way if it weren't for my pending CHL. To put the matter into perspective, I've worked for the same company for 37 years and they put a quarter century sticker on your ID badge when you reach 25 years. It used to be an honorable thing that was celebrated by the company. Now, it is a target. I believe that the CHL in Texas is honorable. I believe that some (many?) in NJ would consider it to be a target, whether I was doing anything wrong or not. It would be just my luck to get involved in a routine traffic stop in NJ that escalated into something much worse. We've driven through Canada (no guns on board, I'm not that stupid) and just my Texas plates got me into a line of questioning about guns, whether I had any, owned any, etc. There are all kinds of banned food items, limited liquor quantities, etc. that the Canadian border guard could have quizzed me about but we spent 3/4 of the time in her "interview" of me with gun related questions. Thankfully, she let me enter without a search. It is not uncommon for the Canadian authorities to search RVs entering Canada. I cannot imagine that is common at all for NJ or NY to search RVs so if I were using the FOPA method of firearm transport, as long as I didn't volunteer the information (or they didn't find out about the CHL), there would be no need for the topic to come up.

We are planning our trips for this year and have no intention of crossing the NJ/NY boarder during one of them. That won't last forever. I'm going to be faced with this issue sooner or later.

[baldeagle]

From what I've read, the controversy over FOPA arrests appears to be isolated to the Port Authority at the airports in NJ and NY and to the city of NY. The rest of those states appear to be accepting of the law. In fact, NJ actually has a law that somewhat mirrors FOPA. There is one significant difference in the NJ law. If you're traveling in a vehicle that does not have a trunk, both the firearm and the ammunition must be in a locked container. FOPA says firearm OR ammunition. Of course the NRA-ILA is the best source for information on these issues, because they are in court fighting for our rights 24/7/365.

In the cases that I've read, the plaintiffs all did something wrong. Either they weren't fully in compliance with FOPA or they made statements that hurt their cases. That gave the courts an opening to rule against them. Those cases are on appeal, and will probably go to the Supreme Court eventually, where the matter will be settled once and for all.

In my opinion, it's time for the state of New York to get slapped hard by the federal government. And Mayor Bloomberg as well.