Possible Civil rights violation (very long) (Please help)

[Originalist]

First I apologize becuase this is going to be long.
Ok flew to PA without incident (Southwest = good airline -- even on the return from Philadelphia). No issues checking my handgun or anythign like that, didnt even slow the process of checking in. Here is my issue --
Went to Pa becuase I have had to go to court to get parent rights so I can be a father to my son (long story including someone else's name on birth certificate). Ok my problem , my babies mother, (remembering the 10 yo daughter rule), has some family with very violent tendencies, (aggravated assault and the like), second issue was told by the clerk of courts ythat the police have no obligation to enforce a child custody order (basically, they can if they want). So I track down her family, arange a "meeting" so I can get access to my son (if they knew what I was doing, or that I got custody they would disappear off the face of the earth, which is why I went the route I did. So I take my gun for the protection of me and my wife (because the police have no obligation to protect us) Perfectly legal in Pa. In fact even open carried alittle - little nervous so I didnt do it often or long periods of time. So I arrange the meeting and my son and his grandmother and aunt show up. I tell them that I have custody and I would be taking my son, of course they get upset (grandmom threatens to kill me) and alot of yelling and grabbing takes place. My wife and brother in law call the police so they can not get away with my son (get it WE call the police). Well the call taker asks if anyone has a weapon and he tells them yes (honesty is perfectly ok with me). Ok so the police show up the first two officers mention nothing about my handgun and frankly I hadnt thought about it, I was just glad they were there and my son couldnt be taken away while they where there. So another cop shows up and asks if I have a gun I say yes - man did it get ugly from there - I was placed in handcuffs toldthat I was under arrest for a concealed handgun, even after I stated over and over again that I had a Texas CHL a,d there was a reciprocity agreement w/TX and PA. The cop called me a liar (in so many words). Said that I was wrong , that TX may honor Pa but PA doesnt honor TX. So they placed me in the back of a cop car and ther eI sat for the better part of 30 minutes. Thankfully my sons mother didnt show up until after they released me because I was able to quote the agreement almost verbatum did they contact the ADA oncall and verify. The whole time I am in the back of the police car trying to tell them that I am legal. So they tell my family, because by now my sister and everyone else is at this McDonalds that if my son, Gabe, Mother shows up they will elt her leave with him, great here is there chance to disappear ( they dont use banks, or land line telephone numbers, in fact nothing is in any of there names - no trace at all) So finally (after what seems like forever I am let out of the police car and (of course I am crying becuase I was afraid I would lose my son forever) and they dont offer me an apology, they tell me to "be a man" and begin to grill me about why I was carrying a gun, even after I explained about the families violent past. He told me that the police where there to protect me (no direspect but HA). So at the end they took my only means of protection (after they gave the entire family time to show up ( and attempt to follow me to where I was staying and told me I could pick it up the next day. And he would contact DPS and have my license revoked. Not real worried about that but I do feel very insulted. The police where rude, disrespectful and even after they realized I was right and had broke no laws did they treat me any better. Since I respect many of the opinions here I ask
What do you thing about this, or what do you think I should do?

[flintknapper]

One word: YANKEE'S.


I would not have expected anything less.

[nitrogen]

Don't know if I'd call it a Civil Rights violation, but it was definately a violation of the spirit of the law.
Hopefully DPS tells the PA police to jump in a lake, as from your story, you did not violate any laws.

Having said that, I'd contact a lawyer ASAP. The fellow who runs this board, Charles Cotton is a lawyer near Houston, and a board member for the NRA. Hopefully he chimes in. If not, i'd PM him.

[GrannyGlock]

Did you get your son?

[phddan]

Quite frankly, I've come to expect that from police. You were within your lawful rights, but you had gung ho cops throwin their weight around. Not a good situation.
Sorry to say, but a cop being rude and disrespectful doesn't sound like a civil rights violation, but I'll let a lawyer expand on that.
Sorry to hear about your troubles man, and hope they work out in your favor.

Dan

[MoJo]

I don't think it was a civil rights violation but, it sure sounds like a bunch of ill informed cops.

[KBCraig]

While I agree with AFCop that his civil rights were violated by being unlawfully detained and deprived of his lawful property, he'd have a heck of a time getting the courts to agree with him.

While DPS should hopefully laugh this off, if another state's law enforcement agency submits a request to have AFCop's CHL revoked, he should be prepared explain fully and defend himself against the charges.

Hint to AFCop: Let someone else prepare your response to DPS. Preferably a lawyer, but if not, then at least someone who understands how paragraphs work. Don't take it personally, but your report here is not something I'd want to take to court.

Another hint: "I was lawfully carrying", and "the other side's history of violence" is all you need. Don't go into custody matters, court orders, etc. The minutiae will kill your case.

Kevin

[tomneal]

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... rocity.pdf

[barres]

There is a loooooooooooooooooong series of post on the SigForum about a man who was arrested in Philly for their equivalent of UCW, even though he has a PA CHL (or whatever they call their license). It has been well over a year, possibly two, and he still hasn't gotten his firearms back. Heck, it took him over a year just to get the charges dismissed. BTW, they went to his house and confiscated ALL of his firearms.

I pray that you and your son are doing well and that you will have no serious trouble fromyou son's mother's family. I wouldn't hold my breath on you getting your firearm back.

I also think that you'd be wasting you time to pursue any legal recourse against the officers. They showed themselves to be idiots, but, unfortunately, there is no law against being an idiot. If they can articulate that they believed that there was no reciprocity between PA and TX, then they'll get off easily. Philly (PD and local gov't) has proven again and again that they don't believe anyone who is not wearing a badge should have a firearm of any type. Just get home, ASAP, if you haven't already.

I also second the recommendation to lawyer up for a possible fight to keep your CHL. And also look into protective orders against those fine, upstanding folks you went to visit.

[txinvestigator]

These types of situations are ripe with trajedy. Lets all step back and remember two things; we are hearing but one side to the at least three sides to this story, and how many murders have we read about when these situations are present?

I cannot tell from reading that one paragraph if AFcop had a court order to obtain custody, but the police were right in getting control of him and his weapon upon initial contact.

As far as the rest of it......there is MUCH more to this than what has been presented here.

[Commander]

[kw5kw]

[cxm]

Second words: Godless yankees

One word: YANKEE'S.


I would not have expected anything less.