Which Applies: CHL or MPA?

[G26ster]

I'm going to the gun shop. I have a CHL, and I am carrying. If I leave my car and walk in to the shop and un-conceal to say, try a new holster, or have the gunsmith do some work, am I guilty of failure to conceal (46.035)? If I don't have a CHL, and do the same, wouldn't the MPA cover me? I know 46.15 doesn't list gun shops, but I believe case law does.

Same situation going to the range. Can I walk in concealed and then un-conceal? Or, have I violated 46.035? In this case, with no CHL, I would be fully covered by 46.15 (I think).

Maybe silly questions, but I'd like to know.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

Im not sure. When I took my gun in to get work I would carry it in the car and when I got to the shop I would unload it and lock the slide to the rear and just carry it on in there.

If I am looking for a new holster I carry in and if they have a dressing room I take the holster in there and throw it on and check it out.

If they do not have a dressing room ask one of the people there what they want you to do.

[G26ster]

Im not sure. When I took my gun in to get work I would carry it in the car and when I got to the shop I would unload it and lock the slide to the rear and just carry it on in there.

If I am looking for a new holster I carry in and if they have a dressing room I take the holster in there and throw it on and check it out.

If they do not have a dressing room ask one of the people there what they want you to do.

That's my point. All of us "might do" different things. Certainly I would ask the shop owner, but I'm curious as to what's "legal" in both situations I addressed.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

And thats why the first I said was Im not sure...just trying to give you an example of what I do.

If you want to be legal...carry it into the building in the case it came with and then talk to the employees about what they will let you do...that way you arent failing to conceal it and your CHL will cover you.

[denwego]

Technically speaking, there's no legal exception or defense for a person in a gun shop or at a gun show to handle a handgun, illegal knife, or club. Instead, the courts in Texas have stated several times that the non-habitual carrying or possession of a weapon is allowed if the circumstances are manifestly non-criminal, and there is no other legitimate way to exercise your right to keep and bear arms. Kelly vs. RG Industries (1985) is a statement of this, where someone sued to stop a gun show by saying that everyone who touched a handgun was breaking the law, and therefore a gun show was a giant, organized criminal act. The court ruled for the gun show and said that it was plainly a social and business gathering, and that a prohibition on touching or possessing handguns in public as part of buying and selling them was functionally the same as banning their purchase and sale altogether, which was unconstitutional. Based on that, since there is literally no way to conceal your handgun 100% of the time under certain circumstances (trying on a holster, asking to see a handgun in a display case, handing a gun to a gunsmith), §46.035(a) would never pass muster in those specific times.

Not-a-lawyer and all that disclaiming.

On a practical level, the advice of others here is what I'd do: unload it, put it in a case, and ask someone in the store before I open it up. Many gun stores have a policy along the lines of "in a holster or in a case," and I assume they all do until I learn differently.

[Salty1]

I personally would never walk into a gun store or range with a firearm in my hand makes no difference if it is empty or not. That could very easily be construed as a threat of a potential robbery. Having it in a bag or case is a much safer way. MPA covers in the car and from the vehicle directly to your home or place of business as I understand it. No matter what, keeping it concealed is the smart way to handle this type of situation.

[Teamless]

I personally would never walk into a gun store or range with a firearm in my hand makes no difference if it is empty or not.

I agree with your reasoning, but there are a few ranges in my area, (Texas City Range and the range in League City - I think Clear Creek (on Gun Range Road), that both require you to carry openly, with slide opened and magazines removed.

[ralewis]

I personally would never walk into a gun store or range with a firearm in my hand makes no difference if it is empty or not.

I agree with your reasoning, but there are a few ranges in my area, (Texas City Range and the range in League City - I think Clear Creek (on Gun Range Road), that both require you to carry openly, with slide opened and magazines removed.

This is an interesting question and point. The range I go to has a sign that says 'firearms must be unloaded/slides locked". There is no 30.06 sign, so I'm not prohibited from carrying a concealed handgun. My interpretation is this....I can carry concealed, but the gun in my pocket can't be used on the range because I'd be unconealing a loaded gun -- and carrying a loaded gun into the range (presumably meaning a gun you are going to use on the range) is prohibited.

The case cited was interesting also, and it's good to know there is an aspect of common sense that is applied to the patchwork of laws that make figuring out what is technically legal very complicated.

[Texas Size 11]

I personally would never walk into a gun store or range with a firearm in my hand makes no difference if it is empty or not. That could very easily be construed as a threat of a potential robbery. Having it in a bag or case is a much safer way. MPA covers in the car and from the vehicle directly to your home or place of business as I understand it. No matter what, keeping it concealed is the smart way to handle this type of situation.

I agree...I would bag and and let them know that I had it and ask for permission. I think that is the most considerate way to do it.

[seniorshooteress]

I personally would never walk into a gun store or range with a firearm in my hand makes no difference if it is empty or not.

I agree with your reasoning, but there are a few ranges in my area, (Texas City Range and the range in League City - I think Clear Creek (on Gun Range Road), that both require you to carry openly, with slide opened and magazines removed.

This is an interesting question and point. The range I go to has a sign that says 'firearms must be unloaded/slides locked". There is no 30.06 sign, so I'm not prohibited from carrying a concealed handgun. My interpretation is this....I can carry concealed, but the gun in my pocket can't be used on the range because I'd be unconealing a loaded gun -- and carrying a loaded gun into the range (presumably meaning a gun you are going to use on the range) is prohibited.

The case cited was interesting also, and it's good to know there is an aspect of common sense that is applied to the patchwork of laws that make figuring out what is technically legal very complicated.

I go to Texas City range and if I am not going to shoot my carry that day I leave it in my vehicle cause the sign says "ALL" firearms not just the ones you intend to shoot have to be unloaded slide lock open and visible. I was wondering about the unconcealed aspect out in the parking area but was told by the range master that didn't apply there. ALL firearms must be visible before entering the range office and range area. So I don't CC anything there. If going into gun store and holster shopping I usually ask if they have the gun in stock I am trying to find the holster for or carry it in a plastic shopping bag and ask if I can remove it.

[ralewis]

I personally would never walk into a gun store or range with a firearm in my hand makes no difference if it is empty or not.

I agree with your reasoning, but there are a few ranges in my area, (Texas City Range and the range in League City - I think Clear Creek (on Gun Range Road), that both require you to carry openly, with slide opened and magazines removed.

This is an interesting question and point. The range I go to has a sign that says 'firearms must be unloaded/slides locked". There is no 30.06 sign, so I'm not prohibited from carrying a concealed handgun. My interpretation is this....I can carry concealed, but the gun in my pocket can't be used on the range because I'd be unconealing a loaded gun -- and carrying a loaded gun into the range (presumably meaning a gun you are going to use on the range) is prohibited.

The case cited was interesting also, and it's good to know there is an aspect of common sense that is applied to the patchwork of laws that make figuring out what is technically legal very complicated.

I go to Texas City range and if I am not going to shoot my carry that day I leave it in my vehicle cause the sign says "ALL" firearms not just the ones you intend to shoot have to be unloaded slide lock open and visible. I was wondering about the unconcealed aspect out in the parking area but was told by the range master that didn't apply there. ALL firearms must be visible before entering the range office and range area. So I don't CC anything there. If going into gun store and holster shopping I usually ask if they have the gun in stock I am trying to find the holster for or carry it in a plastic shopping bag and ask if I can remove it.

Yes. The range I go says ALL firearms as well. But that sign isn't any more legally enforceable with respect to Concealed Carry than a ghostbusters or "no guns" sign at a movie theater (unless I'm missing something). Why would you be any more deferential to a non-compliant 'no guns' sign at a range than you would be a non-complian sign anywhere else? I'm not advocating you do anything against anyone's wishes, but I am pointing out that is not a legally binding sign. I also said I 'can' not I 'did' or I 'will' in my original post.

[pbwalker]

I've been to ranges that have a sign saying ALL firearms must be unloaded. Bass Pro has the same sign.

I ignore them as they are in no way, shape, or form, legally enforceable.

[G26ster]

Hi I'm the OP

I appreciate everyone's comments very much, but I was looking for what's "legal," not what you would do, or what range or gun shop policies are. My original question (I apologize if I wasn't clear), is simple, at least to me. Regardless of policies, or what you would do, if I walk into my gun range concealed (with CHL) and I go to the shooting bay and un-conceal, have I violated the law under 46.035? Same with the gun shop situation. I would think that in both situations, I have, while carrying under my CHL.

I realize that 46.15 gives relief from 46.02, but does not mention 46.035. Naturally in the gun shop scenario, I will ask permission to un-conceal, but that has nothing to do with my question.

[ralewis]

Hi I'm the OP

I appreciate everyone's comments very much, but I was looking for what's "legal," not what you would do, or what range or gun shop policies are. My original question (I apologize if I wasn't clear), is simple, at least to me. Regardless of policies, or what you would do, if I walk into my gun range concealed (with CHL) and I go to the shooting bay and un-conceal, have I violated the law under 46.035? Same with the gun shop situation. I would think that in both situations, I have, while carrying under my CHL.

I realize that 46.15 gives relief from 46.02, but does not mention 46.035. Naturally in the gun shop scenario, I will ask permission to un-conceal, but that has nothing to do with my question.

I don't believe you will have violated the law. That was what i was trying to say with my first post. Carrying concealed is not legally prohibited as a result of a "guns must be unloaded sign". Not a 30.06-compliant sign......