IFF

[Bird of Prey]

I've gone through hundreds of scenarios in my head...the "What if" kinda stuff. Here's one I've been curious about.

A BG has stormed into the Walmart my family and I are shopping in. He's on a meth trip and decides to let the lead fly. I'm bunkered down with my trusty Glock 19 when LEO's rush in. They only know that some crazed lunie is mowing people down. I see them before they see me. The last thing I want is some LEO glancing my direction and being startled by someone crouched down with a pistol in their hands.

What's the best course of action at this point? I know there's no set guidelines in this particular scenario. Do I yell out "CHL"? One of the last things I'd want to do is have to lay down my gun as the BG could be anywhere. And if any of you LEO's read this, would you prefer I holster it or would the extra firepower be welcomed?

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

Pull out your CHL Badge and throw on your CHL sash. Once you do that everything will be ok.

[chefkristian]

Pull out your CHL Badge and throw on your CHL sash. Once you do that everything will be ok.

[lonewolf]

My sash is red silk.......

[G.A. Heath]

If you don't have a viable target in sight and ready to be shot your weapon should not be drawn to avoid placing yourself in the above described scenario. If you have to use your weapon immediately reholster and reconceal when your finished. You want to do this so that the LEOs who respond to the "man with a gun" call don't show up and potentially shoot the man they see with a gun.

[hangfour]

I asked a similar question in my CHL class. The answer that I found most satisfying was stated in a post above this one:

If you don't have a viable target in sight and ready to be shot your weapon should not be drawn to avoid placing yourself in the above described scenario. If you have to use your weapon immediately reholster and reconceal when your finished. You want to do this so that the LEOs who respond to the "man with a gun" call don't show up and potentially shoot the man they see with a gun.

It seems to me that in such situations the LEO's are going to focus on anyone with a gun. I don't want that to me me. Thanks for the question.

[WildBill]

And if any of you LEO's read this, would you prefer I holster it or would the extra firepower be welcomed?

IMO, an LEO asking a CHL to help out in a "man with a gun" scenario is a fantasy that a few CHLs have. More likely a CHL who was observed holding a gun would be shot. I am not an LEO.

[seamusTX]

If you can't get out the back door or into a defensible inner room, you had better be prone on top of your loved ones with empty hands and no weapon in sight.

I would be screaming like a girl, but that's just me.

These events are so violent and go down so fast that no one who has not been in combat can comprehend them, let alone react in a useful way. That includes me.

You may have seen horror movies or played violent video games, but the real thing is much uglier and smells really bad.

- Jim

[OldCannon]

Know what the difference is between a bad guy shooting people and a good guy with a CHL in a scenario like that? Nothing.

In an "active shooter" scenario, most cops aren't going to sort the problem out by asking questions first. If LEOs are there, a) let them do their job, and b) don't look like a target to them.

Then again, If I had a "clean shot" and I knew that the LEOs weren't in my area, AND I knew (beyond a doubt) I would save an innocent life by doing it, I assure you I would do what was right, even if it meant I might get my face slammed into the floor once the LEOs arrived on-scene.

[Excaliber]

I asked a similar question in my CHL class. The answer that I found most satisfying was stated in a post above this one:

If you don't have a viable target in sight and ready to be shot your weapon should not be drawn to avoid placing yourself in the above described scenario. If you have to use your weapon immediately reholster and reconceal when your finished. You want to do this so that the LEOs who respond to the "man with a gun" call don't show up and potentially shoot the man they see with a gun.

It seems to me that in such situations the LEO's are going to focus on anyone with a gun. I don't want that to me me. Thanks for the question.

The reasoning in the above quote is sound.

Unless you have come up with a new and wildly effective solution to the perennial IFF problem, you need to consider that the visible difference between a good guy with a gun and a bad guy with a gun at an unsecured incident scene is typically very little to nothing.

WildBill is also correct that officers arriving at a shooting scene are definitely not going to be enlisting CHL'ers to provide extra "firepower", and they will most certainly focus first on anyone with a visible weapon because that's where the most immediate threat is likely to come from. That person will be initially categorized as a problem to be solved, not a resource.

You do not want to be the subject of that focus.

[bdickens]

How do the uniformed officers differentiate between the bad guys and any plainclothes and/ or off-duty cops that may be responding to the same incident? Or do the uniformed guys just shoot them, too?

Surely, there has to be a way.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

see my post above

[seamusTX]

How do the uniformed officers differentiate between the bad guys and any plainclothes and/ or off-duty cops that may be responding to the same incident? Or do the uniformed guys just shoot them, too?

Sometimes the uniformed cops do shoot plainclothes and off-duty cops, especially ones that happen to be darker than a grocery bag.

I think the more reasonable answer is that everybody doesn't just run into a crime scene with guns blazing like the Keystone Kops. There are protocols for entering with a sort of flying wedge where everyone knows who is who and who is designated to shoot first if necessary.

- Jim

[Hoi Polloi]

Meth guy walks into WalMart and starts shooting it up. It seems to me that there are two possible places you might be:
1) In direct and close proximity to Meth Guy, meaning you have little to no time to react.
2) Not in direct or close proximity to Meth Guy, meaning you need to be heading to whichever emergency exit is closest to you and not in the direction of the shots.

If you're in position 1, you're lucky if you have time to throw yourself down to the ground and not be visible or shot. If you're in position 2, you're outta there. So we're really only talking about people in position 1, right?

OK, that leaves the Position 1 guy in three possible scenarios:
A) He was shot in the initial attack and is down.
B) The shooter is remaining stationary so that the Friend of CHarLes (CHL holder) remains in the same level of threat.
C) The shooter is moving through the store, either increasing (i) or decreasing (ii) the Friend of CHarLes' risk.

So what would people suggest for the fantasy play-through-the-scenario-in-one's-head response given those situations?

[bdickens]

To answer the OP:

It depends.