NEGOTIATE !!!

[RPB]

The University of Texas at Austin
Police Department

Safety Protocol:
Armed Subjects


http://www.utexas.edu/police/safety/saf ... ols_en.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

4. If the armed subject comes into your class or office:
• There is no one procedure the authorities can recommend in
this situation.
• Attempt to get the word out to other staff if possible, and call UTPD
at 471-4441 if that seems practical.
• Use common sense. If hiding or fleeing is impossible, attempt to
negotiate with the individual.
• Attempting to overcome the armed subject with force is a last resort that should only be initiated in the most extreme circumstances.
• Remember, there may be more than one active armed subject.
• Wait for the “all clear” instruction.
• Be careful not to make any changes to the scene of the incident since
law enforcement authorities will investigate the area later.
• In case you must flee, do not go to the normal gathering site for your
building. Get as far away from the shooting scene as possible and
then contact authorities.


Wow, you look thirsty, lets go to the cafeteria, I'll buy you a Coke.
(Ok, I'll practice that.)

[txsccc]

SO by negotiating with an active shooter, are they basically telling you to beg for your life and if he doesn't fall for it, you can kiss your rear goodbye? Wow, such a generous option...

[RPB]

I'm guessing you ask why they are suicidal,
THEN
if money worries, offer to write them a check
if girl troubles, offer to introduce him to your sister
if grades, offer to either tutor him or pay for a tutor

The guy at Lubys had women issues.

[srothstein]

Actually, the order they give is pretty good advice, and we should all recognize it for what it is.

1. Flee or hide if possible.

I think it is always better to avoid dangerous situations liek this if I can, so fleeing or hiding is pretty good advice.

2. Negotiate if you can't avoid situation

Don't we always talk about de-escalating when possible? Sounds like the same to me. Besides, if you are stuck where you can't flee or hide, this is a good intermediate step. It can always serve to distract the BG for a second to give you a chance to improve the situation.

3. Use force if no other option exists.

The only flaw I see is they did not say deadly force, but since it is illegal on campus (to have guns anyway), use whatever force you have and can use.


But the more important part that I cannot believe I am the first to catch is the police response. The advice said (emphasis mine):

• Be careful not to make any changes to the scene of the incident since law enforcement authorities will investigate the area later.

This is an admission that the police cannot protect you and can only be there later. This is why we need to work on getting laws changed to improve the self-defense possibilities. And when the other side says it is so rare we should not worry about it, we can point to this document that says it is common enough that the university has made policies on it. They cannot have it both ways (too rare to worry about while they worry about it themselves).

[esxmarkc]

• Use common sense. If hiding or fleeing is impossible, attempt to
negotiate with the individual.

Hey there my man! I'll give fifty bucks for that there shiny pistola what'dya say?

[Beiruty]

I guess carrying a utility knife is still legal no? Just jump the shooter like a tiger and attack face/neck area!

[cbr600]

deleted

[74novaman]

2. Negotiate if you can't avoid situation

Don't we always talk about de-escalating when possible? Sounds like the same to me. Besides, if you are stuck where you can't flee or hide, this is a good intermediate step. It can always serve to distract the BG for a second to give you a chance to improve the situation.

If someone is running around campus shooting off their mouth, non-violent conflict resolution is a great idea. However, if someone is running around campus shooting a firearm, that's a different matter. Avoid if possible. If not, using legislators and administrators as shields sounds like a great idea, since their policies prohibit me from carrying.

I like this.

[KaiserB]

Negotiation was a complete success.

[hangfour]

What I like about the UT plan is that they have one ... of course this assumes that the staff has been property trained and drilled on the plan (not likely). My wife and I have plans and drills based on the book "Strong on Defense" by Sanford Strong.

The goal is escape ... from the first millisecond until we have escaped. This involves:
reacting immediately with escape in mind,
never submit (this includes negotiation),
never allow the bad guy to move us anywhere else,
never give up no matter how much pain or injury we incur, and
seize the first opportune moment to use deadly force if a quick escape is not an option.

The key, in my view is to have a plan and a mind set to use it without hesitation. In this sense I commend UT for at least having a plan.

[74novaman]

This is what I think of when I hear the word Negotiate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oKwg6W05MU

[Ameer]

This is what I think of when I hear the word Negotiate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oKwg6W05MU

That is effective. It reminds me of another classic negotiation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7PrbNU0UT0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[language warning for video]

[chartreuse]

This is what I think of when I hear the word Negotiate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oKwg6W05MU

That was my first thought, too.

[TxSheepdog]

This is what I think of when I hear the word Negotiate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oKwg6W05MU

That was my first thought, too.

Dang, we all think alike. I was looking up the link, then read your post..

[The Mad Moderate]