Displaying at someone's home?

[sawdust]

I have been asked to discuss self-defense issues and to provide handgun orientation to a friend's daughter (she's over 21). The question immediately arose as to the legality of a CHL holder (or anyone, for that matter) displaying a handgun (as a teaching tool)in someone else's residence. I haven't been able to find any specific reference to this.

Would this be a case of where it may be technically illegal, but if no one complains, ....?

So, what does this august panel say?

[RHenriksen]

You've been invited. And you're going to unholster, ***and unload*** the pistol before continuing w. the lesson, right? Sounds completely unrelated to the CHL statutes.

[dicion]

It says that if you're on private property, not in public view, and are displaying with the owner of the property's consent, then it's no business of the law or otherwise what you do.

Actually, that's just my opinion...

It is said somewhere that the average American Commits 3 felonies a day, and doesn't even know it.

Technically, legally, no, there is no exemption in the law for this. But if no one complains..
I look at it sort of like the sport of Hockey. If the ref doesn't see it, it's not a foul.

[dicion]

You've been invited. And you're going to unholster, ***and unload*** the pistol before continuing w. the lesson, right? Sounds completely unrelated to the CHL statutes.

There's no exception to 46.02 or 46.035 for unloaded weapons. Technically, there is no distinction between a loaded, or unloaded handgun anywhere in the Texas statutes. Technically, by letter of the law, It's intentional failure to conceal by a CHL holder, if he's a CHL holder, or UCW under 46.02 if he's not a CHL Holder.

But like I said above, no harm, no foul.

[cbr600]

Would this be a case of where it may be technically illegal, but if no one complains, ....?

That sounds about right. There's no "on the property of another with consent" exemption I can find.

If I had to defend it, I might try for the "other sporting activity" exemption in 46.15 but IANAL.

Better all around to use a "blue gun" or even an airsoft gun for demonstration.

[ScottDLS]

I have been asked to discuss self-defense issues and to provide handgun orientation to a friend's daughter (she's over 21). The question immediately arose as to the legality of a CHL holder (or anyone, for that matter) displaying a handgun (as a teaching tool)in someone else's residence. I haven't been able to find any specific reference to this.

Would this be a case of where it may be technically illegal, but if no one complains, ....?

So, what does this august panel say?

I think there is a strong case that you are exempt from 46.02 as your friend delegated "control" of his "premises" to you when he asked you to come over with a handgun and provide instruction. If you are, in fact, exempt from 46.02 then CHL and 46.035 do not come into play as you are not carrying under the authority of your CHL.

PC §46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries
on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the
person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's
control; or

[baldeagle]

You guys are essentially saying it's illegal to display your weapon in your own home, but since no one's going to complain you're OK.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or

If you are in your home, you have not committed an offense.

IANAL, but ISTM that "premises under the person's control" applies to the property of a friend, neighbor, family member or other person who has granted you permission to carry your weapon in their home. If one takes the view that what is not expressly forbidden in the law is, ipso facto, legal, then you can carry on any private property where you have effective consent to carry. If you think about it, what you're saying is that it's illegal to carry a handgun while hunting feral hogs on private property. The only reason you get away with it is because the owner will not complain. That makes no sense.

[dicion]

If you think about it, what you're saying is that it's illegal to carry a handgun while hunting feral hogs on private property. The only reason you get away with it is because the owner will not complain. That makes no sense.

Not true, there's an exception for hunting:

Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.
...
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
...
(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

and before you say 'premises' does not apply to open land, there's a specific definition in this section for it:

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.
(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent.

[cbr600]

You guys are essentially saying it's illegal to display your weapon in your own home, but since no one's going to complain you're OK.

No. I'm saying that my home is my own premises, unless I rent, in which case it's premises under my control.

[ScottDLS]

You guys are essentially saying it's illegal to display your weapon in your own home, but since no one's going to complain you're OK.

No...I said the opposite... and quoted the same PC section as you to make my point.

[BobCat]

How about if you bring an unloaded, cased handgun with you, for "show and tell" instruction? Even if you are carrying, you are not displaying your carry weapon (failing to conceal it).

Seems that opening a gun case case and extracting an unloaded handgun is completely unlike "deliberately failing to conceal" a weapon carried under the CHL statutes.

[dicion]

Seems that opening a gun case case and extracting an unloaded handgun is completely unlike "deliberately failing to conceal" a weapon carried under the CHL statutes.

Under the law, its the same thing. There is no distinction between loaded and unloaded.
Do you have a handgun on or about your person? - Yes
Is it Concealed? - No
Is the unconcealment intentional? - Yes
Therefore, 46.03 Violated.

Listen, I'm agreeing that it's dumb, and 99.999999999% of the time, noone's going to care. I'm just saying what the law says, and according to the law, it's illegal.
Just like Driving past a school with your gun in your glovebox without a CHL is illegal. Even though before, and after the school zone, it's completely legal under MPA.

Stupid laws, not enforced in these situations, but they're still there.

[BrianSW99]

I could be wrong, but I would think that having the handgun exposed in the course of legitimate teaching activity would fall under the "other sporting activity" exception, even if you're not at a range.

[baldeagle]

The problem that I have with this whole discussion is that the approach being taken is; if the law doesn't permit it, it's illegal. I think that's the wrong approach. It should be, if the law doesn't forbid it, it's legal. There is no prohibition in the law to displaying a weapon on private property where you have been given consent, therefore it is legal.

And I still think that 46.02 covers being in someone else's house. There is no violation of the law because you are in a premises that you have effective control of because the owner has granted you permission. So 46.02 specifically exempts you from any specific prohibitions that the law provides.

[esxmarkc]

Now wait just a minute. Everyone is quoting 46.02 but 46.02 does not apply as per:

Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;