WAX or plastic BULLETS?

[fishfree]

I am not a reloader so please bare with me.

I know wax bullets are used for practice, at least by some in some action shooting sports. And I understand they can be messy and necessitate frequent cleaning of the barrel (like every 5 shots?).

But does anyone know if they have ever been made with some lead shot 'filler' like #12 or #9 shot to make a frangible round?
I was thinking of either plain paraffin poured over the pre-wrmed shot then punched out into plugs to fit in a 357mag casing. Typical wax bullets are fired with just the primer as propellant but maybe 1 or 2 grains of powder might be in order.

The objective is a round that can be fired at a close (5-10 feet) ground target with reduced ill-effects of ricochet. I know there are Glaser safety slugs and CCI shot shells but they are rather pricey for dispatching a copperhe... er ground target (whew! nearly stepped in it then ). Also I was thinking I might even use plain-jane wax/plastic bullets (no lead shot added) for training.

Any thoughts on this?

[Don2]

Never tried adding shot to the wax, nope. We used to train indoors doing room-clearance drills with wax bullets for 9mm cast in a 158gr SWC .357 mould - but had to hand-cycle each shot. We also tried adding powder hoping to get some slide-function, but it just made things WAY louder.

A cheap white candle was a bit too crystalline (and soft), so we added some red dinner-candle to it - worked like a champ :)

Working off what you said, I just remembered about "Gluelets" spelling???
Using hot glue in regular bullet molds, I think the article was at castboolits web site..( If I can mention that here?)
Guess I already did

Never tried it, but seems to work as per the instructions in the article/posts ?

I've also made shot shells with and without the Speer capsules. They work good, but capsules are kinda expensive. Using 38/357 brass loaded with shot and gas checks or other cards works just fine for small shot shells. But no load data available for the ones without the capsule and I should not give out data that is not tried and true load data by the manuals.
But the OP said he was not a handloader at all.


Don2

[Excaliber]

Speer makes plastic training rounds that are powered by just a primer and use very durable and reusable cylindrical projectiles. The only tool you need to use them is a nail to poke out the fired primers.

When I bought some in 1974, the prevailing wisdom said these were great for practice at home and the projectiles would be stopped by a heavy blanket. There was no mention of using the carpet scraps that are currently recommended.

Sooo - I draped a very heavy blanket over an exercise bar I had put at the top of the doorway to the kitchen in my tiny NYC studio apartment. I then proceeded to load my revolver and fired with the expectation that there would be a little "pop", the blanket would pucker backwards as it decelerated the round, and the expended round would drop neatly into the cardboard box I had placed underneath to receive it.

What actually happened was: there was a really loud "BANG" in that little apartment. The projectile's energy was not observably dissipated by the blanket. In fact, the blanket didn't even move and a perfectly round hole appeared at the point of aim. The round continued at close to initial velocity on about 6 feet until it encountered the refrigerator. The outer skin of this appliance did deform (permanently) and absorb some but not all of the projectile's energy. It also redirected the the round in a direction that allowed it to make contact with multiple other surfaces in that tiny room until it came to rest spinning on the floor.

The wife was not pleased.

That being said, for OUTDOOR use in revolvers, those plastic rounds are really neat, dirt cheap to shoot, and a lot of fun when used in the proper environment. They are also definitely not toys and should be treated like any other live ammunition.

[fishfree]

I found a recipe for wax bullets at americanrifleman but noticed numerous videos on youtube using just plain canning wax as well. I also saw videos converting a spent 357 casing into a 'rice' shot shell using cardboard wadding and grains of rice for the shot.

As I understand it in the 1930's some folk made poor boys 12 gauge slugs by mixing molten wax with the shot and spooning it back into the shotgun shell. It just seems natural to me that if I wanted a cheap frangible load for close in rattler work this might be worth a try; especially if there were any load recipes already known.

For the few times I'd want a frangible load for the revolver I suppose I am better off just using the commercial shot shells but if I could make a decent target round for the price of a primer cap it might justify getting a minimal setup for de-priming and re-priming spent casings.

Thanks for the replies.

[apostate]

As I understand it in the 1930's some folk made poor boys 12 gauge slugs by mixing molten wax with the shot and spooning it back into the shotgun shell. It just seems natural to me that if I wanted a cheap frangible load for close in rattler work this might be worth a try; especially if there were any load recipes already known.

I could maybe see something like that for hunting rats in a barn, to limit structural damage and overpenetration, but what's the advantage of a low-powered (primer only) frangible round for snakes, instead of a standard velocity wadcutter?

For target practice, here's an article you may find interesting.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/Article ... 294&cid=32" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[texasmusic]

When making wax slugs you use the normal powder charge. For snake shots it seems you would want the spread, there are rat-shot loads available but I've never used one besides the .22 variety.

[Don2]

Speer makes plastic training rounds that are powered by just a primer and use very durable and reusable cylindrical projectiles. The only tool you need to use them is a nail to poke out the fired primers.

When I bought some in 1974, the prevailing wisdom said these were great for practice at home and the projectiles would be stopped by a heavy blanket. There was no mention of using the carpet scraps that are currently recommended.

Sooo - I draped a very heavy blanket over an exercise bar I had put at the top of the doorway to the kitchen in my tiny NYC studio apartment. I then proceeded to load my revolver and fired with the expectation that there would be a little "pop", the blanket would pucker backwards as it decelerated the round, and the expended round would drop neatly into the cardboard box I had placed underneath to receive it.

What actually happened was: there was a really loud "BANG" in that little apartment. The projectile's energy was not observably dissipated by the blanket. In fact, the blanket didn't even move and a perfectly round hole appeared at the point of aim. The round continued at close to initial velocity on about 6 feet until it encountered the refrigerator. The outer skin of this appliance did deform (permanently) and absorb some but not all of the projectile's energy. It also redirected the the round in a direction that allowed it to make contact with multiple other surfaces in that tiny room until it came to rest spinning on the floor.

The wife was not pleased.

That being said, for OUTDOOR use in revolvers, those plastic rounds are really neat, dirt cheap to shoot, and a lot of fun when used in the proper environment. They are also definitely not toys and should be treated like any other live ammunition.

There was NOW WAY I could keep myself from laughing...Not at you, but at what had happened.!!
ONLY because it made me remember when my shop was just 4 outside walls with holes...I had field mice visit me from time to time looking for crumbs....Ahhhh poor little hungry mice...WELL...They would mess my shop up at night eating or chewing on everything from wax to electrical wiring..!!!
I was getting tired of it and got some 22LR shot shells and loaded them into my Browning 22lr pistol and sit it on top of a table . I w as sitting -in-wait for them when I saw one creep around a box.....BANG..I shot it and the shot bounced around and back towards me...!!! NO safety glasses...I'm glad they did not hit me !
Lesson Learned....Do not shoot indoors if you can help it.! You NEVER know.

YES...I think its Speer that makes the rubber/plastic bullets and a plastic case for them too?? (never tried them )
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearc ... er+plastic" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sorry for the long winded story.

Don2

[fishfree]

As I understand it in the 1930's some folk made poor boys 12 gauge slugs by mixing molten wax with the shot and spooning it back into the shotgun shell. It just seems natural to me that if I wanted a cheap frangible load for close in rattler work this might be worth a try; especially if there were any load recipes already known.

I could maybe see something like that for hunting rats in a barn, to limit structural damage and overpenetration, but what's the advantage of a low-powered (primer only) frangible round for snakes, instead of a standard velocity wadcutter?

For target practice, here's an article you may find interesting.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/Article ... 294&cid=32" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ricochets

[fishfree]

I always use plain old canning paraffin. The blocks are about 1/2" thick. I made a holder out of a styrofoam block for .38s. Soak the paraffin in hot water for about 5 minutes. Load the styrofoam block with 50 cases (re-sized, and with the flash hole drilled to 1/8"), and set it on the paraffin block (just fits). Press the cases down one at a time with your thumb (its really easy because of the hot water). You end up with a real nice wax wadcutter. Don't install the primers until you are ready to shoot, as the paraffin will kill the primers. Mark these cases for wax only, as the flash hole has been enlarged, and the paraffin residue in the case will cause mis-fires.

The wax engages the rifling just like a lead bullet, and is very accurate up to 20'. They will penetrate cheap paneling, gypsum wall board, and aluminum cans. The sight on the revolver have to be adjusted a lot for point of aim from regular cartridges.

I tried the plastic Speer bullets/cases. They are okay (cleaner), but cost more.

Thanks I did not know about the wax killing the primer.

[Excaliber]

Speer makes plastic training rounds that are powered by just a primer and use very durable and reusable cylindrical projectiles. The only tool you need to use them is a nail to poke out the fired primers.

When I bought some in 1974, the prevailing wisdom said these were great for practice at home and the projectiles would be stopped by a heavy blanket. There was no mention of using the carpet scraps that are currently recommended.

Sooo - I draped a very heavy blanket over an exercise bar I had put at the top of the doorway to the kitchen in my tiny NYC studio apartment. I then proceeded to load my revolver and fired with the expectation that there would be a little "pop", the blanket would pucker backwards as it decelerated the round, and the expended round would drop neatly into the cardboard box I had placed underneath to receive it.

What actually happened was: there was a really loud "BANG" in that little apartment. The projectile's energy was not observably dissipated by the blanket. In fact, the blanket didn't even move and a perfectly round hole appeared at the point of aim. The round continued at close to initial velocity on about 6 feet until it encountered the refrigerator. The outer skin of this appliance did deform (permanently) and absorb some but not all of the projectile's energy. It also redirected the the round in a direction that allowed it to make contact with multiple other surfaces in that tiny room until it came to rest spinning on the floor.

The wife was not pleased.

That being said, for OUTDOOR use in revolvers, those plastic rounds are really neat, dirt cheap to shoot, and a lot of fun when used in the proper environment. They are also definitely not toys and should be treated like any other live ammunition.

There was NOW WAY I could keep myself from laughing...Not at you, but at what had happened.!!
ONLY because it made me remember when my shop was just 4 outside walls with holes...I had field mice visit me from time to time looking for crumbs....Ahhhh poor little hungry mice...WELL...They would mess my shop up at night eating or chewing on everything from wax to electrical wiring..!!!
I was getting tired of it and got some 22LR shot shells and loaded them into my Browning 22lr pistol and sit it on top of a table . I w as sitting -in-wait for them when I saw one creep around a box.....BANG..I shot it and the shot bounced around and back towards me...!!! NO safety glasses...I'm glad they did not hit me !
Lesson Learned....Do not shoot indoors if you can help it.! You NEVER know.

YES...I think its Speer that makes the rubber/plastic bullets and a plastic case for them too?? (never tried them )
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearc ... er+plastic" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sorry for the long winded story.

Don2

I figured a few folks would get a chuckle out of the story. That's why I posted it.

It would have been even funnier if you could've seen my expression when it happened

[Rex B]

I have some .32 ACP practice ammo I bought a few years ago. it's all bright blue plastic except for the 1/4" of case nearest the head.
Surprisingly accurate. I was pretty cheap, made in one of the Eastern European countries IIRC.

[Don2]

I have some .32 ACP practice ammo I bought a few years ago. it's all bright blue plastic except for the 1/4" of case nearest the head.
Surprisingly accurate. I was pretty cheap, made in one of the Eastern European countries IIRC.

Ya know, I have shot a lot of pistols in my time...But never shot a 32 acp yet..!!
I have a few 380 acp's..but no 32's.
Not that its good or bad..I guess the opportunity never presented itself.
But I have been interested in the 327 magnum revolver..!

Don2

[Rex B]

Yeah, me too. CDNN has a Taurus 6-shot revolver in .327 Federal for $250 right now.
You can also shoot .32 H&R mag, .32 S&W Long, and even .32 ACP.