Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

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74novaman
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Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

Post by 74novaman »

Inspired by another thread asking about the HiPoint carbine in 9mm, thought we might discuss the usefulness or novelty of PCCs.

My personal view:
They have a specialized niche where they are a fantastic choice.

When compared to other weapons, PCCs fall into an interesting little niche in my view.

They do not conceal or carry as easily as a pistol, but can make more reliable hits are further distances and some have higher capacity.

They do not hit as hard or at as long range as rifles, but are lighter and easier to conceal or carry.

Every weapon man has made has a specific purpose in mind. When used in that mode, it probably shines. When used outside of it, the weapon will normally lag behind other weapons specifically designed for that purpose. However, weapons can be adapted to better fill certain roles.

For example: A 28" shotgun with birdshot is an ideal weapon to hunt bird. (its original, specific purpose. I know not all shotguns were designed this way, but for this argument I'm referring to the most commonly owned pump guns, 870s and 500s.) It doesn't do as well in a home defense scenario. That being said, a shotgun with buckshot or slugs and an 18" barrel is a much more desirable HD weapon. Not its original purpose, but adapted well to fit it.

Pistol Caliber Carbines (or SMGs or Machine Pistols) were originally designed as short range suppression weapons designed to be used on full auto. Almost all military forces in the WW2 era used them for this purpose, to allow their bolt action or Garand equipped buddies the ability to maneuver, close with the enemy and destroy them. It was the house to house fighting towards the end of WW2 that really showed everyone involved how handy a man portable, intermediate cartridge automatic rifle would be handy in modern warfare, and thus the "assault weapons" were born.

So if we have rifles and pistols, what niche would a PCC fill (especially one that isn't capable of automatic fire...)?

I will preface that to me, the ideal PCC to fit this role should be a high capacity SBR, preferably with a folding or collapsing stock. (thus more compact than a rifle). Common examples would be an SBR'd Uzi, or SBR's Sterling, H&K MP5 style weapon, UMP, etc.

To me, it fits 2 roles better than either pistols or rifles.
1) Home Defense in a suburban setting (I'll take a rifle in the country)
2) An in car weapon (not trunk gun)

1)Home Defense:
Like many of you, I live in a brick home, with neighbors nearby no matter which direction I look outside. Penetration in the suburbs matters, and I'd rather not wind up with holes in my neighbors house if I have to use a weapon. Certainly frangible rifle ammunition helps if you're only option is a rifle, but a PCC would be far LESS likely to over-penetrate. Carries more rounds than a shotgun or pistol (generally), and is lighter/easier to handle than rifle.

Advantages over a handgun:
Larger capacity magazines
A 2 handed weapon with a stock is far easier to make accurate hits with than a handgun

Advantages over a rifle:
Less likelihood of over-penetration
Lighter, easier to maneuver in the home

Advantages over a shotgun:
Higher capacity
Lighter, easier to maneuver in the home

2) an in car weapon.
This is kind of a unique role, but one I think is worth considering. Holstered pistols are hard to draw while seated in a car. Rifles are long and cumbersome inside a vehicle. The PCC balances this out nicely. In a a problem arises type situation where you must be worried about mobs or carjacking, or even a simple hurricane evacuation where traffic is jammed and tempers are short, throwing a towel over a PCC allows you as a driver or passenger to defend yourself in car. The advantages over our other common weapons are basically the same in this situation, so I see no need to spell it all out again.

Anyway, for the Way Too Long, Didn't Read (WTL;DR) crowd:

A PCC has a valuable niche to fill in a civilian arsenal. While you can use other weapons for the scenarios I think it shines in, its hard to beat it in regards to those situations.

And if nothing else, there's something awfully cool about subguns. :cheers2:

I'd love to hear others thoughts on why I'm right or way off base. :tiphat:
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Re: Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

Post by discoqueen »

Just chiming in to say that my husband and I were talking about this very thing last night! I saw a guy with one at the range over the weekend, and I want one. :mrgreen:
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Re: Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

Post by 74novaman »

discoqueen wrote:Just chiming in to say that my husband and I were talking about this very thing last night! I saw a guy with one at the range over the weekend, and I want one. :mrgreen:
And you know, that is another EXCELLENT reason that I completely neglected to mention. :banghead:

The ONLY gun my wife enjoys shooting is a Marlin 1894 in .357 (but fed with .38s). (She didn't even like my .22 pistol)

PCCs are softer shooting than rifles OR handguns in valid defensive calibers, and some are fairly lightweight.

They may be the perfect home defense solution for those of the fairer sex who aren't fond of recoil or weight in a gun.

I blame my leaving this out on being male. Apologies, ladies. :oops: :tiphat:
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Re: Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

Post by speedsix »

...really enjoyed this...I think an M1Carbine in .357 or .45 would be my dream carbine...with a 30-shot stick...
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Re: Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

Post by discoqueen »

We were out there shooting our new AR15, and bench shooting it is fun, 'cause you're putting lead downrange. But it weighs in at 7lbs, so my little bird wings get tired pretty quick if I'm NOT bench shhoting it. So something smaller makes more sense for me- plus they're just freakin' cool. LOL
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Re: Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

Post by 74novaman »

speedsix wrote:...really enjoyed this...I think an M1Carbine in .357 or .45 would be my dream carbine...with a 30-shot stick...
Thanks for the compliment. :mrgreen: I really need to start up my blog again. I enjoy writing, and am kind of long winded at times. :oops: I abandoned it last year when my grandfather had his stroke, and never got back into the swing of it. Maybe I'll copy my thoughts on PCCs over there. :cool:
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Re: Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

Post by speedsix »

...go for it...I been snoopin' there a bit...
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Re: Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

Post by jeffrw »

I don't own one of these, but one other advantage would be interchangeability of ammunition. The same 9mm cartridge that works in your Glock 26 for concealed carry could also work in your PCC for home defense, etc.
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Re: Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

Post by G26ster »

speedsix wrote:...really enjoyed this...I think an M1Carbine in .357 or .45 would be my dream carbine...with a 30-shot stick...
That's why I have 3 of these :-) .30 Carbine, same power as .357. 1900fps, relatively cheap ammo, and 30 rd magazines are available cheap. :mrgreen:

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Re: Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

Post by 74novaman »

An M1 is nice, but I'd still consider it more in the rifle category.

I think for the purposes I listed, an even more compact weapon is desirable.
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Re: Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

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Re: Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

Post by The Annoyed Man »

Well, it would seem to me that a carbine might be next to useless in a car unless it was a folder. Yes, it can be difficult to draw a holstered pistol in a car, but wouldn't a "pistol" with a 16" barrel and a buttstock be even more difficult to bring to bear? Sorry, I don't mean to be a contrarian like I was in the "other" thread. Anyway, in my opinion, other than as a plinker (in which case .22LR would be the most economical chambering), the primary value of a pistol caliber semiautomatic carbine would be either if it fires a very powerful cartridge by pistol standards—which would make a M1 Carbine in .30 carbine useful—or if it is select fire and can be switched to full auto. If you're going to restrict yourself to pistol calibers, then the one thing that is better than throwing a few pistol bullets in somebody's direction is throwing a veritable hail of pistol bullets in their direction.

When it comes to rifle caliber fire, I'm a big believer in aimed semiauto fire over spray and pray full auto. But inside of confined spaces, and absent a full auto capability, I'm not completely convinced that a longer barrel and sight radius are that much of an advantage over a handgun firing the same caliber. And if you want a carbine that takes 33 round Glock mags.....well, so does a Glock pistol of that same caliber.
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Re: Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

Post by 74novaman »

The Annoyed Man wrote:Well, it would seem to me that a carbine might be next to useless in a car unless it was a folder. Yes, it can be difficult to draw a holstered pistol in a car, but wouldn't a "pistol" with a 16" barrel and a buttstock be even more difficult to bring to bear?
I did specify that for my purposes, I was refering to SBRd, mostly folding stock carbines.

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Re: Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

Post by The Annoyed Man »

74novaman wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:Well, it would seem to me that a carbine might be next to useless in a car unless it was a folder. Yes, it can be difficult to draw a holstered pistol in a car, but wouldn't a "pistol" with a 16" barrel and a buttstock be even more difficult to bring to bear?
I did specify that for my purposes, I was refering to SBRd, mostly folding stock carbines.

:tiphat:
Man.....I've got to stop skimming over posts and start actually reading them. :oops: I guess I'm a bit distracted today. Sorry. :mrgreen:
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Re: Purpose/Use of a Pistol Caliber Carbine(PCC)

Post by G26ster »

74novaman wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:Well, it would seem to me that a carbine might be next to useless in a car unless it was a folder. Yes, it can be difficult to draw a holstered pistol in a car, but wouldn't a "pistol" with a 16" barrel and a buttstock be even more difficult to bring to bear?
I did specify that for my purposes, I was refering to SBRd, mostly folding stock carbines.

:tiphat:
Ask and ye shall receive :mrgreen: M1, folding stock. :tiphat:

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