Carrying While On Horseback

[Running Arrow Bill]

Question for Charles:

I Know someone who does periodic trail riding in areas that is not a government area. The person is not a CHL. Thus, when someone is riding a horse (not on their property or otherwise prohibited) does carrying a concealed handgun in a saddle bag come under the MPA laws? My feeling is that their horse is their "vehicle" and they are in control of the vehicle.

Appreciate your comments, Charles (and any other knowledgable gun people)

Thanks,

Bill (CHL for 12 years).

[RPB]

Question for Charles:

I Know someone who does periodic trail riding in areas that is not a government area. The person is not a CHL. Thus, when someone is riding a horse (not on their property or otherwise prohibited) does carrying a concealed handgun in a saddle bag come under the MPA laws? My feeling is that their horse is their "vehicle" and they are in control of the vehicle.

Appreciate your comments, Charles (and any other knowledgable gun people)

Thanks,

Bill (CHL for 12 years).

I'm not Charles but ...

A bicycle is not a motor vehicle, so one couldn't carry in bicycle saddle bags under the MPA for the same reason a horse's saddle bags on a non-motorized horse aren't covered by the MPA.

Where's the motor?
Sec. 46.02 Penal Code
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/d ... /PE.46.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

motor vehicle or watercraft


(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or

(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

Now if you had a horse trailer ...( Why isn't a covered wagon pulled by a horse an RV- "horse trailer" ?

(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.

[Beiruty]

Open carry, you are traveling on a horse, no?

[RPB]

open carry a rifle/shotgun in a rifle holster/scabbard like The Rifleman and everyone else used to on horses ... no CHL needed for a rifle, and no law against open carrying one on a horse or bike ... only handguns need concealing and they require a chl or else conditions stated in Chapter 46.02 Penal

http://api.ning.com/files/vXddP*YmeyKZB ... bbard1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.aussiesaddle.com/images/adj-sca-near.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


etc etc

http://www.google.com/search?q=rifle+ho ... 24&bih=636" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Running Arrow Bill]

Open carry, you are traveling on a horse, no?

Not open carry. Concealed in a saddle bag.

BTW, I don't ride horses myself...

[RPB]

If not on his property/property under his control carrying a concealed handgun in a horse's saddle bag is generally illegal without a CHL ... with a few possible exceptions.


Is he Traveling?
or
Is he on the way to a range/gun show/historical reenactment/carrying it to some destination for another lawful purpose such as to go hunting?

He can carry a rifle or shotgun if he wants to be legal

That's my layman's opinion.

[Crossfire]

Traveling, again, only applies to a motor vehicle.

If not on his own property, or property under his control, he needs a CHL.

[C-dub]

Traveling, again, only applies to a motor vehicle.

If not on his own property, or property under his control, he needs a CHL.

Yeah, unfortunately, no one travels by foot or horse any more. I wonder if someone like the Amish have an exception to the motor vehicle rule.

[Cowpuncher]

I haven't driven a vehicle in ten years I live a on a vast ranch in Bexar county now but have lived in AZ and NM. It is perfectly legal to carry a firearm on your hip as well as rifles in shotgun in scabbards. To the moron who says know one travels this way , I can only presume he is out of touch with those of us living off the grid. I have no social security card no birth certificate. Never been counted on the census. The one time I had an issue was in El Paso, a smart cop thought he had me until a Texas ranger and PDS explained city ordinance requires all city business to have a horse trough and hitching post out side every single business. They left us be. I have logged tens of thousands of hours in the saddle rode from Colorado to Arizona and AZ to Tx. Slept on the ground been accepted into good peoples homes. I am a saddle tramp along time. I've had frost bite and heat sickness but I am a free man

[MONGOOSE]

I've never been questioned while carrying a rifle in a scabbard.

[carlson1]

I haven't driven a vehicle in ten years I live a on a vast ranch in Bexar county now but have lived in AZ and NM. It is perfectly legal to carry a firearm on your hip as well as rifles in shotgun in scabbards. To the moron who says know one travels this way , I can only presume he is out of touch with those of us living off the grid. I have no social security card no birth certificate. Never been counted on the census. The one time I had an issue was in El Paso, a smart cop thought he had me until a Texas ranger and PDS explained city ordinance requires all city business to have a horse trough and hitching post out side every single business. They left us be. I have logged tens of thousands of hours in the saddle rode from Colorado to Arizona and AZ to Tx. Slept on the ground been accepted into good peoples homes. I am a saddle tramp along time. I've had frost bite and heat sickness but I am a free man

I didn't know those living off the grid had computers and electricity? At least you are not out of touch with world.

[srothstein]

Traveling, again, only applies to a motor vehicle.

If not on his own property, or property under his control, he needs a CHL.

I strongly disagree. Traveling is not restricted to motor vehicles and includes any mode of travel. It includes foot, horseback, bicycle, car, truck, boat, airplane, and whatever other method you can come up with. The word "traveling" is not defined in the law and the controlling court case that I am aware of simply says that traveling is to be determined by the trier of fact. This means it is whatever the jury rules it is if you have a jury trial and whatever the judge rules it is if you do not have a jury.

I believe the concept of restricting it to motor vehicles came up mostly with the original version of the MPA. It included motor vehicles as one of the definitions of traveling but clearly implied there were others. The wording at the time said that "traveling included". This means this is one possible use but there are others. A good analogy for us is how the preliminary phrase of the 2nd Amendment includes one reason for the right to keep and bear arms but it is not the only reason.

[Abraham]

Cowpuncher,

Would I be wrong in assuming you have contempt for us that live "ON" the grid?

I would also assume you don't have a CHL given your "OFF" the grid status?

(which begs the question, why are you posting here...?)

Or, if you do have a CHL, you're definitely "ON" the grid.