AP found this newsworthy...

[hi-power]

Cash-Strapped Michigan Sheriff's Department Auctioning Machine Gun

Tuesday, February 27, 2007
Associated Press

LAPEER, Mich. — For sale: Collector quality, fully automatic M-16 in excellent condition. Never fired outside shooting range.

Buyer must have machine gun permit and have no criminal record. And deep pockets.

Strapped for cash, the Lapeer County Sheriff's Department is selling the original Colt rifle on its Web site to purchase new guns and other equipment for its 82 deputies. The office hasn't received a budget increase in six years, and Undersheriff Robert Rapson said the gun might fetch as much as $1,700 by the time bidding closes May 1.

"We are a small county and we need to take advantage of this," Rapson told the Detroit Free Press for a story published Tuesday. "We've had to cut to the bone for a long time."

The department purchased the weapon, which is capable of firing 700 rounds per minute, for $500 in the 1970s for use in emergencies such as hostage situations. Last fall, the department sold off its arsenal of five AR-15 automatic rifles.

A 1986 federal law banned the sale of new automatic weapons but allowed those already in circulation to be sold.

"The fact that a law enforcement agency is selling a dangerous weapon is appalling," said Shikha Hamilton, president of the Michigan chapter of the Million Mom March, a gun control group.

"Hee-hee", said hi-power.

[nitrogen]

1700 for an M-16? If it's transferrable, it's worth at least $17,000, if not more.

I'm THERE. I'll pay 3k and do so happily.

[stevie_d_64]

I find it appalling that there were no takers in any nieghboring jurisdictions that wouldn't want to snatch this up...

Instead of floating this out there for some local hack from the MMM's to make such a big deal out of nothing...

I guess they just really want us to melt our stuff down or something...

What a bunch of rockheads...(MMM's, not the department folks...)

[Greybeard]

Quote: "arsenal of five AR-15 automatic rifles"

Good to know that 5 makes "an arsenal". Too bad they had to sell 'em.

And methinks if they'd put the M-16 up on an auction with some decent exposure, they could get enough to buy another "arsenal" of ARs and STILL have a big wad of cash.

[srothstein]

I find it appalling that there were no takers in any nieghboring jurisdictions that wouldn't want to snatch this up

Stevie, one reason that they did not is that many departments are getting rid of their fully automatic weapons. They have become unpopular with the politicians in charge, and they really are hard to justify for most departments. My argument has always been that it is unnecessary 99.9999% of the time, but when you do need it, you will really need it.

As one example, a small town I know of received three surplus M-16's from the Army about 3 years ago. They have stayed in the safe in the Chief's office ever since. He will not issue them (doesn't trust the men with them to know what they are doing) until he gets them pinned back down to semi-auot only. I have no idea why he hasn't done that yet, except for coming up with a budget to do so.

Quote: "arsenal of five AR-15 automatic rifles"

Good to know that 5 makes "an arsenal". Rolling Eyes Too bad they had to sell 'em.

My question when I read that was how do you get one M-16 and 5 "automatic" AR-15's? I thought that the automatic made it an M-16 instead.

Of course, I knew the reporter did not know what he was talking about.


And I think they have now put it up for an auction with some decent exposure. National coverage for free with no broker's fee from the auction houses. Not too stupid when you think about it.

And Nitrogen, you are too slow. I already said I would double their expectations at $3400. I figured I could double my money in a week, and thatguy would probably come close to doubling his if he did not better it. I am not greedy and would share the wealth for the quick turnover.

[KBCraig]

As one example, a small town I know of received three surplus M-16's from the Army about 3 years ago. They have stayed in the safe in the Chief's office ever since. He will not issue them (doesn't trust the men with them to know what they are doing) until he gets them pinned back down to semi-auot only. I have no idea why he hasn't done that yet, except for coming up with a budget to do so.

There's a gizmo made of stamped/folded steel, which fits under the pistol grip, and extends up to block the selector switch from being turned past "semi". We have them on our M16A2s and Colt 9mm SMGs.

When I first qualified with the SMG, they let us each fire a full 30 round mag in "go fast" mode. I fired one three round burst, then emptied the mag. From 15 yards, it was very controllable and easy to keep all rounds COM.

http://www.colt.com/mil/SMG.asp

Anyhoo, those gizmos are simple and should be cheap, and only take a couple of minutes with a screwdriver to install. I'll try to find out who makes them.

Kevin

[KBCraig]

My armorer is going to check on the source of those devices. He thinks they came from the military supply chain. I'll post back if I find out anything.

[jimlongley]

Of course AP identified it as a "Machine Gun."

[srothstein]

Thanks Kevin. Don't expend too much effort. I don't work for that department any more and I would not help him with that project anyway. I figured it would be better to take the officers out and teach them how to use the full auto just in case they ever needed it.

Of course, i would have had loads of fun spending the cities ammo teaching them, also.

[JohnTheHead]

Though I am in no way opposed to agencies having fully automatic weapons, I'm not a big personal fan of the concept. It's fun to blow through some ammo, but my personal tactical philosophy dictates semi-auto... I am also not a big fan of the 5.56 round for general law enforcement work, but that's just a matter of preference. I prefer my .45 carbine for a close quarters weapon. There's still an AR-15 in my truck though, just in case ;) Both have many advantages and disadvantages.

I think that with proper training any officer can be imparted with the technical skills required to reliably, accurately, and safely operate a fully automatic weapon in a tactical environment. That being said, the stupidity of the human animal never ceases to amaze me. There are some people out there that, even with all of the training in the world, should never hold a weapon, much less one capable of spewing out rounds with a cyclic rate of fire of 700 rounds per minute.

The answer is not limiting fire power, 8.5lb trigger pulls, et cetera. The answer lies in selecting better people and investing in their training.

Back to the original point of the post...

I would be very surprised if that rifle sold for anywhere near $1,700. I might even cry if I found out it actually sold for that. Why, Why, Why do these things not fall in MY lap?

ehem...

As far as the AR-15 vs the M16 question. The M16 is the nomenclature given to a military rifle. Before the M16 was the AR15. The original AR15 was a select fire weapon. Actually, it was a select fire weapon with no forward assist and a smaller stock. That weapon became the military's M16. Then came the M16A, M16A1, A2, A3, and so on...

Bushmaster does not actually manufacture an AR-15, they manufacture an AR-15 "type" rifle, which is actually an XM15E2S.

There is essentially no technical difference between an M16 and a select fire AR15. What dictates which rifle it is depends on what's stamped on the receiver. It's kind of like the Beretta 92 vs M9 Pistol thing. Most of the weapons in this country's military aresenal of past wars have been made by multiple vendors...

Cheers
-Head

[KBCraig]

Thanks Kevin. Don't expend too much effort. I don't work for that department any more and I would not help him with that project anyway. I figured it would be better to take the officers out and teach them how to use the full auto just in case they ever needed it.

Just in case anyone else has a need for this, here's the source (available to government agencies only, I would imagine). The cost two years ago was $1.94 apiece.

http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/1122/List%20o ... eapons.htm

*Note: Over the past several years, we have had inquiries from a few LEA communities about modifying their M16 Rifles to fire in a semi-automatic mode only. The TACOM position is, "once an automatic weapon, always an automatic weapon;" we know of no way to permanently modify an M16 Rifle to remove it's burst/auto fire capability.

HOWEVER, there is available within the DLA system a locking plate that mounts between the pistol grip and the lower receiver. When installed on an M16 Rifle, this plate prevents the M16 Rifle selector from moving to the burst/auto fire position, the selector can only move between the safe and semi positions. This plate can be installed/removed easily and does not interfere with the storage of M16 Rifles in DoD arms racks.

We believe this locking plate is a vehicle that the LEA community can use to limit M16 Rifle fire capabilities. The NSN for this plate is 5340-00-233-9031. NICP is S9I.

If you are interested in this locking plate, please contact the DLA Law Enforcement Support Office at:

Defense Logistics Agency, J-3
ATTN: J-372/LESO (suite 3422)
8725 John J. Kingman Road, STOP 6233
Fort Belvoir, VA 22060-6221
Phone Number: 1-800-532-9946