Employee Handbook Question

[Bones444]

Hi Guys, I had a question regarding the legality of carrying at my job. I just started a new job today and went through my handbook during orientation. Of course this employer had the traditional no guns at work policy (licensed or not) or you will get terminated. However, they did include a paper version of the 30.06 in the handbook. All employees signed it at the end. Now there is no 30.06 sign at any entrance or in any part of the building, only in the handbook. I just had my renewal class and paper versions in a handbook was not even mentioned. My take on it is since it was not in sign form with the legal requirements, it doesnt count and should be treated as not a valid 30.06. Making it legal to carry, but can definitely and will get canned.

My question is, is it LEGAL to carry in the building?

[WildBill]

Hi Guys, I had a question regarding the legality of carrying at my job. I just started a new job today and went through my handbook during orientation. Of course this employer had the traditional no guns at work policy (licensed or not) or you will get terminated. However, they did include a paper version of the 30.06 in the handbook. All employees signed it at the end. Now there is no 30.06 sign at any entrance or in any part of the building, only in the handbook. I just had my renewal class and paper versions in a handbook was not even mentioned. My take on it is since it was not in sign form with the legal requirements, it doesnt count and should be treated as not a valid 30.06. Making it legal to carry, but can definitely and will get canned.

My question is, is it LEGAL to carry in the building?

It DOES count. You have been given notice so you can not legally carry in the building. IANAL, but you can ask one if he agrees with me.

[RPB]

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.30.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(3) "Written communication" means:

(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or

(B) a sign ...

You were given a written communication, it's valid and enforceable notice if it contains the 30.06 language.
Carrying there can not only get you fired, but arrested.

[WildBill]

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.30.htm

(3) "Written communication" means:

(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or

(B) a sign ...

You were given a written communication, it's valid and enforceable notice if it contains the 30.06 language.
Carrying there can not only get you fired, but arrested.

You beat me to it. Thanks for posting the statute.

[The Annoyed Man]

Hi Guys, I had a question regarding the legality of carrying at my job. I just started a new job today and went through my handbook during orientation. Of course this employer had the traditional no guns at work policy (licensed or not) or you will get terminated. However, they did include a paper version of the 30.06 in the handbook. All employees signed it at the end. Now there is no 30.06 sign at any entrance or in any part of the building, only in the handbook. I just had my renewal class and paper versions in a handbook was not even mentioned. My take on it is since it was not in sign form with the legal requirements, it doesnt count and should be treated as not a valid 30.06. Making it legal to carry, but can definitely and will get canned.

My question is, is it LEGAL to carry in the building?

It DOES count. You have been given notice so you can not legally carry in the building. IANAL, but you can ask one if he agrees with me.

This ^^. Effective notice is effective notice. The handbook alone without the mini-30.06 alone would have been enough to get you fired. WITH the mini-30.06 with your signature on it, you might now be arrested too if you're caught carrying at work.

[WildBill]

Hi Guys, I had a question regarding the legality of carrying at my job. I just started a new job today and went through my handbook during orientation. Of course this employer had the traditional no guns at work policy (licensed or not) or you will get terminated. However, they did include a paper version of the 30.06 in the handbook. All employees signed it at the end. Now there is no 30.06 sign at any entrance or in any part of the building, only in the handbook. I just had my renewal class and paper versions in a handbook was not even mentioned. My take on it is since it was not in sign form with the legal requirements, it doesnt count and should be treated as not a valid 30.06. Making it legal to carry, but can definitely and will get canned.

My question is, is it LEGAL to carry in the building?

It DOES count. You have been given notice so you can not legally carry in the building. IANAL, but you can ask one if he agrees with me.

This ^^. Effective notice is effective notice. The handbook alone without the mini-30.06 alone would have been enough to get you fired. WITH the mini-30.06 with your signature on it, you might now be arrested too if you're caught carrying at work.

Bones444 - I am not a lawyer, but it is obvious that your company consulted with a lawyer or some other individual that has an in-depth understanding of Texas CHL laws. They clearly knew what they were doing when they included the 30.06 verbage in your orientation package and then had you sign it.

[Bones444]

Thanks guys! I knew that this was not your typical scenario when I saw that form. Wild Bill that was my thoughts exactly. If they knew what form to throw in the packet, then they did have to consult with a legal department. Good thing I asked. Would that make it illegal to leave it in the vehicle since the vehicle is still on the premises and still covered under that document?

[Teamless]

Would that make it illegal to leave it in the vehicle since the vehicle is still on the premises and still covered under that document?

As long as you are not working at one of the business exempt from the Parking Lot Law, you can leave it (concealed) in your car.

[RPB]

Would that make it illegal to leave it in the vehicle since the vehicle is still on the premises and still covered under that document?

As long as you are not working at one of the business exempt from the Parking Lot Law, you can leave it (concealed) in your car.

vehicle is still on the premises

In most sections of the penal code which concern licensed concealed carry ...

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(f) In this section:

(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

I'm not real knowledgeable about the "Parking lot law" passed last session http://www.littler.com/publication-pres ... owed-texas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; <-article in *non-legalese* (I'm retired, I drive about 1,000 miles a year, park at my house and HEB and on the CourtHouse Square and a church parking lot) but others here are, I think it protects most employees, except Chemical Plant/Oilfield workers or something. Others here know much more about it than I.

Parking lot law
is an
amendment to Chapter 52 of the Texas Labor Code
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /LA.52.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The article in *non-legalese* is a good *start* to understanding it.
http://www.littler.com/publication-pres ... owed-texas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Footnote to
http://www.littler.com/publication-pres ... owed-texas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SB 321 amends Section 411.203 of the Texas Government Code to make clear that an employer may limit the right of a person holding a CHL from carrying a concealed handgun on the employer's premises. However, SB 321 defines narrowly the term "premises" and adopts the definition of "premises" set forth in Section 46.035(f)(3) of the Texas Penal Code.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(f) In this section:

(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

[RPB]

The Parking Lot Law

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /LA.52.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LABOR CODE

TITLE 2. PROTECTION OF LABORERS

SUBTITLE B. RESTRICTIONS ON LABOR

CHAPTER 52. MISCELLANEOUS RESTRICTIONS



SUBCHAPTER G. RESTRICTIONS ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE TRANSPORTATION OR STORAGE OF CERTAIN FIREARMS OR AMMUNITION

Sec. 52.061. RESTRICTION ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE ACCESS TO OR STORAGE OF FIREARM OR AMMUNITION. A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees.

Added by Acts 2011, 82nd Leg., R.S., Ch. 1058, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2011.


Sec. 52.062. EXCEPTIONS. (a) Section 52.061 does not:

(1) authorize a person who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition to possess a firearm or ammunition on any property where the possession of a firearm or ammunition is prohibited by state or federal law; or

(2) apply to:

(A) a vehicle owned or leased by a public or private employer and used by an employee in the course and scope of the employee's employment, unless the employee is required to transport or store a firearm in the official discharge of the employee's duties;

(B) a school district;

(C) an open-enrollment charter school, as defined by Section 5.001, Education Code;

(D) a private school, as defined by Section 22.081, Education Code;

(E) property owned or controlled by a person, other than the employer, that is subject to a valid, unexpired oil, gas, or other mineral lease that contains a provision prohibiting the possession of firearms on the property; or

(F) property owned or leased by a chemical manufacturer or oil and gas refiner with an air authorization under Chapter 382, Health and Safety Code, and on which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of hazardous, combustible, or explosive materials, except in regard to an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and who stores a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees that is outside of a secured and restricted area:

(i) that contains the physical plant;

(ii) that is not open to the public; and

(iii) the ingress into which is constantly monitored by security personnel.

(b) Section 52.061 does not prohibit an employer from prohibiting an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, or who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, from possessing a firearm the employee is otherwise authorized by law to possess on the premises of the employer's business. In this subsection, "premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.

Added by Acts 2011, 82nd Leg., R.S., Ch. 1058, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2011.


Sec. 52.063. IMMUNITY FROM CIVIL LIABILITY. (a) Except in cases of gross negligence, a public or private employer, or the employer's principal, officer, director, employee, or agent, is not liable in a civil action for personal injury, death, property damage, or any other damages resulting from or arising out of an occurrence involving a firearm or ammunition that the employer is required to allow on the employer's property under this subchapter.

(b) The presence of a firearm or ammunition on an employer's property under the authority of this subchapter does not by itself constitute a failure by the employer to provide a safe workplace.

(c) For purposes of this section, a public or private employer, or the employer's principal, officer, director, employee, or agent, does not have a duty:

(1) to patrol, inspect, or secure:

(A) any parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees; or

(B) any privately owned motor vehicle located in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area described by Paragraph (A); or

(2) to investigate, confirm, or determine an employee's compliance with laws related to the ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition or the transportation and storage of a firearm or ammunition.

Added by Acts 2011, 82nd Leg., R.S., Ch. 1058, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2011.


Sec. 52.064. CONSTRUCTION OF PROVISION RELATING TO IMMUNITY FROM CIVIL LIABILITY. Section 52.063 does not limit or alter the personal liability of:

(1) an individual who causes harm or injury by using a firearm or ammunition;

(2) an individual who aids, assists, or encourages another individual to cause harm or injury by using a firearm or ammunition; or

(3) an employee who transports or stores a firearm or ammunition on the property of the employee's employer but who fails to comply with the requirements of Section 52.061.

Added by Acts 2011, 82nd Leg., R.S., Ch. 1058, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2011.

[MasterOfNone]

vehicle is still on the premises

In most sections of the penal code which concern licensed concealed carry ...

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(f) In this section:

(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

The term "premises" is not really relevant here. Keep in mind that the 30.06 text uses the term "property" not "premises". The parking lot would likely be considered part of the "property", meaning you could not carry in the parking lot, though the parking lot bill could apply to your car as others have indicated.

[RPB]

I understand the point...
30.06 applies to "property" rather than "Premises"
However, with regard to employees, IMHO Layman's opinion, the Parking lot law trumps 30.06 with regards to EMPLOYEES (employees only, not the general public in the same parking lot) storing guns/ammo, in locked cars, in (certain) parking lots

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:

(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and

But

"premises" is relevant to the Parking lot law-an employee storing it in their car since employer 30.06'd the "property"

An Employer may post a 30.06 sign per the parking lot law, except the parking lot law refers a to premises as defined

(b) Section 52.061 does not prohibit an employer from prohibiting an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, or who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, from possessing a firearm the employee is otherwise authorized by law to possess on the premises of the employer's business. In this subsection, "premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.

My rationale/reasoning:
Car storage
SUBCHAPTER G. RESTRICTIONS ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE TRANSPORTATION OR STORAGE OF CERTAIN FIREARMS OR AMMUNITION
The Parking lot law, passed subsequent/after the 30.06 law ... the way I read it ... This was meant to place a restriction on an employer to not 30.06 a parking lot "property", or if a 30.06 sign is placed on parking lot "property" to render a 30.06 notice on a parking lot "property" ineffective with regards to employees (not general public, but employees) storing in the locked car (since they can't carry into the 30.06'd "premises")

Sec. 52.061. RESTRICTION ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE ACCESS TO OR STORAGE OF FIREARM OR AMMUNITION. A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees.

[MasterOfNone]

I should have been more specific. I meant only to point out that "premises" is not relevant to 30.06 so the OP did not think it was OK to carry outside the building.

[RPB]

I should have been more specific. I meant only to point out that "premises" is not relevant to 30.06 so the OP did not think it was OK to carry outside the building.

True
Parking lots can be 30.06'd ...

Employees should know ...
The parking lot law just allows storage for an employee, (in my non-lawyer layman's opinion) even if the lot has a 30.06 sign or the paper in the employee handbook has 30.06 language. It does not do away with the 30.06 prohibition totally in the parking lot ... you can't "carry" in the parking lot, on the grassy are, in the courtyard, etc if you been 30.06'd there.

I better go shopping, you guys are making me read things I'll never use ... I'm retired

[The Annoyed Man]

I have seen it argued on these pages that even if an employer attempted to exclude employees with CHLs from their parking lots by posting those lots with a 30.06 sign, it would still not prevent one from having their gun secured in their car under the MPA....over which 30.06 has no authority......and that if confronted about it, a CHL holder could selectively claim refuge under MPA. The language of the law is too ambiguous for my personal comfort to use that argument.....which of course does not mean that I would not secure my gun in my car anyway and take the risk of getting fired anyway. I would take that risk....but I also realize that as a self-employed person who requires all employees to be armed at all times, exceptions to be granted only on a case-by-case basis, it is easy for me to take that attitude.