It was Twenty Years ago Today...

[bdickens]

Not that Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play, but that we found out exactly what the purpose of the Second Amendment is.

The Waco siege (sometimes called the "Waco massacre"[4]) was a siege of a compound belonging to the religious group Branch Davidians by the United States federal and Texas state law enforcement and military between February 28 and April 19, 1993.[5]

The Branch Davidians, a Protestant Christian sect led by David Koresh, lived at Mount Carmel Center ranch in the community of Elk, Texas,[6][7] nine miles (14 kilometers) east-northeast of Waco. The group was suspected of weapons violations and a search and arrest warrant was obtained.

The incident began when the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) attempted to raid the ranch. An intense gun battle erupted, resulting in the deaths of four agents and six Branch Davidians. Upon the ATF's failure to raid the compound, a siege was initiated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the standoff lasting 51 days. Eventually, the FBI launched an assault and initiated a tear gas attack in an attempt to force the Branch Davidians out. During the attack, a fire engulfed Mount Carmel Center and 76 men, women and children,[8][9] including David Koresh, died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[baldeagle]

And lots of Americans shrugged their shoulders and said, What did they expect? They were nutjobs.

That attitude is why the government has managed to amass so much power. If we won't defend every American's right to freedom, no matter how disgusting we might find them to be, then there will be no one left to defend us when they come to take ours away.

[K.Mooneyham]

I don't have any tears for David Koresh, but what was done there, the way it was handled was an absolute disgrace. We always hear about "if it saves just one life" from the political left, but their precious Clintonian administration burned those people up and killed a bunch of little kids in the process. Oh, and BTW, Eric Holder was involved with that mess, too.

[v-rog]

Yep, viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65395

[IANAL]

It's interesting taking to people who lived in the area and thought the religion's members were strange but that's as far as it went. Texas CPS investigated some allegations but found no evidence that would support prosecution. Local law enforcement also didn't seem especially concerned about illegal activities at the church before the siege.

The allegations of criminal activity by Koresh and others in the church seem to come from the group who killed them. As far as I can find, no proof of those allegations has ever been released. I don't know what to think about Koresh and his church members, but I'm not the kind to blindly trust what killers say about the people they killed, especially without independently verified evidence.

[JALLEN]

This is what can happen when you entrust the power of government to a pot-smoking, draft dodging, womanizing, uncommonly good liar. These guys always have an agenda that is far more important than simple good governing.

I confess that I have become a Coolidgean, the kind of man under whose leadership such a thing would be completely unthinkable, and a lot more besides.

There is something about these collectivists that just cannot abide people going about their business in simple freedom.

[K.Mooneyham]

This is what can happen when you entrust the power of government to a pot-smoking, draft dodging, womanizing, uncommonly good liar. These guys always have an agenda that is far more important than simple good governing.

I confess that I have become a Coolidgean, the kind of man under whose leadership such a thing would be completely unthinkable, and a lot more besides.

There is something about these collectivists that just cannot abide people going about their business in simple freedom.

Yes sir, the collectivists are also elitists. They don't just think they are better, they "know" it. And they will take any and every opportunity to get power and exercise it to show that they are better than anyone not exactly like them. Feinstein's gun-grabbing attempts are a prime example.

[Skiprr]

...That we found out exactly what the purpose of the Second Amendment is.

No, the purpose of the Second Amendment was solidly established long, long before, during the American Revolution...which was won in large part due to the privately-owned arms and willing participation of individual citizens. Based on that experience, and the knowledge and insight of the Founders, the Second Amendment was ratified as an integral part of the Bill of Rights on December 15, 1791.

[DEB]

It's interesting taking to people who lived in the area and thought the religion's members were strange but that's as far as it went. Texas CPS investigated some allegations but found no evidence that would support prosecution. Local law enforcement also didn't seem especially concerned about illegal activities at the church before the siege.

The allegations of criminal activity by Koresh and others in the church seem to come from the group who killed them. As far as I can find, no proof of those allegations has ever been released. I don't know what to think about Koresh and his church members, but I'm not the kind to blindly trust what killers say about the people they killed, especially without independently verified evidence.

This It always appears and is reported that those who usually just want to be left alone are somehow monsters. And these monsters not only need to be eradicated but all those who are with them. Where else does one kill the children in order to save them? I guess to the powers that be, that the "Fate worse than Death", is religion, usually Christian in nature. It seems to me, that during Democratic administrations that the enemies of America are usually other Americans, first and foremost. Our so called News Media, during these administrations, seem at least to me, to be complicit with any and all actions of Democratic administrations.

[C-dub]

Wow! 20 years. It doesn't seem that long ago.

I tend to give the government a little more leniency on many things, but then I remember this was during the Clinton-Reno gun-grabber reign and Koresh thought he was Jesus or something like that. A couple of nut jobs butting heads.

[tacticool]

Wow! 20 years. It doesn't seem that long ago.

I tend to give the government a little more leniency on many things, but then I remember this was during the Clinton-Reno gun-grabber reign and Koresh thought he was Jesus or something like that. A couple of nut jobs butting heads.

Religious beliefs are protected by the Bill of Rights. Gun grabbing politicians are prohibited by the Bill of Rights.

From the perspective of the United States Constitution, it's obvious which side was anti-American.

[bdickens]

Wow! 20 years. It doesn't seem that long ago.

I tend to give the government a little more leniency on many things, but then I remember this was during the Clinton-Reno gun-grabber reign and Koresh thought he was Jesus or something like that. A couple of nut jobs butting heads.

Well, it just so happens that Koresh was not only permitted to think he was Jesus, but that he was guaranteed by the Constitution to be free to exercise that belief. People can be nut jobs all they want and they are supposed to have their nut-jobbery protected by the government, not persecuted by it.

The First Amendment was not put there to protect the Methodists and Episcopalians. Everybody likes the Methodists and Episcopalians. It was put there to protect the Branch Davidians and the Neo-pagans.

[Jumping Frog]

"But the children were being sexually molested. That is why we had to burn them to death."

[SherwoodForest]

The ill-conceived ATF assault against the Branch Davidians was planned as a training excercise against a perceived " soft target " - due to the presence of children.