Lofers Bend State Park

[Dirthawking]

I was down at Lofers bend state park yesterday and noticed that they have a sign up at the main entrance that is a "gun buster" sign that simply said no firearms, and had the crossed out gun picture.

I know Texas allows CHL carry in State parks, and National parks in Texas as well, but you would think they would know this was not a legal sign.

Is it because Lake Whitney is part of US Army corps of engineers? If so, you would think they would just put up a 30.06 sign instead of a simple "No Firearms" sign.

Thoughts?

[RottenApple]

I was down at Lofers bend state park yesterday and noticed that they have a sign up at the main entrance that is a "gun buster" sign that simply said no firearms, and had the crossed out gun picture.

I know Texas allows CHL carry in State parks, and National parks in Texas as well, but you would think they would know this was not a legal sign.

Is it because Lake Whitney is part of US Army corps of engineers? If so, you would think they would just put up a 30.06 sign instead of a simple "No Firearms" sign.

Thoughts?

USACE lands are off-limits and no sign is needed. Also, 30.06 wouldn't apply to government property like a state park.

[Dirthawking]

Okay, then why not post something along the lines of corp property? No where did it specify that it was corp property. I did not figure that out until today while researching the area.

[RottenApple]

Okay, then why not post something along the lines of corp property? No where did it specify that it was corp property. I did not figure that out until today while researching the area.

That would be an issue to take up with USACE, not park officials.

As for markings in general, it is OUR responsibility to know where we can and can't legally carry. If you're going to a restaurant, research it and find out if its a 51% location or not. Going to a store/business, research it (texas3006.com is a good resource) first. Going to a state/national park.... Well, you get the idea.

[Dirthawking]

Yeah, I know. I still can not figure out if the land the camp grounds and day use areas are part of corp land. The lake, just claims to be "part" of corps. Fuzzy area for sure, and better safe than sorry in this case.

[Boxerrider]

http://www.swf-wc.usace.army.mil/whitne ... sparks.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Somebody else may have more details, but if it's a corps park then I would assume it's federal property.

Enjoy!
Jeff

[couzin]

I still can not figure out if the land the camp grounds and day use areas are part of corp land.

Still Federally-owned land - some parks and other areas are leased / licensed to private vendors / cities / counties or the State (TPWD) on several USACE managed - Federally owned properties. All Federal regulations and laws are still applicable.

[TexasGal]

You can not legally have it in your car either if the parking lot is within Corps boundaries. It is frustrating to everyone. As you noticed, it is often not identified nor the boundaries marked when you are there. You need to research it ahead of time. A bill that would have fixed all that and allowed carry on ACOE lands died in the legislature this year thanks to the Democrats. Hopefully, another attempt will be made to get that passed in the future.

[talltex]

I still can not figure out if the land the camp grounds and day use areas are part of corp land.

Still Federally-owned land - some parks and other areas are leased / licensed to private vendors / cities / counties or the State (TPWD) on several USACE managed - Federally owned properties. All Federal regulations and laws are still applicable.

It depends on the specific area in question. Almost all of the park areas anywhere at Lake Whitney are Corp of Engineer property. On the Hill county side, there is Lake Whitney State Park, which is not...all the others on the south end of the lake such as Lofer's Bend, Walling Bend, Cedron Creek, McCowen Valley. Soldiers Bluff are all COE parks. There are a few other areas which are open to hunting where firearms are allowed, but they are non-developed areas without any park facilities. It can be confusing, and you have to do some research...after all, it's part of the Federal Government...

[couzin]

It depends on the specific area in question. Almost all of the park areas anywhere at Lake Whitney are Corp of Engineer property. On the Hill county side, there is Lake Whitney State Park, which is not...

Talltex - in this case you are incorrect - the park is leased to the State from the US Army (Corps of Engineers). The first thing on the TPWD website says this: "The 955-acre Lake Whitney State Park was acquired in 1954 by a Department of the Army lease and opened in May 1965. The park is along the east shore of Lake Whitney, west of Hillsboro in Hill County." The topic of TPWD leased areas like Cooper, Town Bluff, White Oak, etc and concealed carry - has been thoroughly flogged here on the forum.

[anygunanywhere]

USACE - one of the ultimate infringers of the RKBA.

Anygunanywhere

[talltex]

It depends on the specific area in question. Almost all of the park areas anywhere at Lake Whitney are Corp of Engineer property. On the Hill county side, there is Lake Whitney State Park, which is not...

Talltex - in this case you are incorrect - the park is leased to the State from the US Army (Corps of Engineers). The first thing on the TPWD website says this: "The 955-acre Lake Whitney State Park was acquired in 1954 by a Department of the Army lease and opened in May 1965. The park is along the east shore of Lake Whitney, west of Hillsboro in Hill County." The topic of TPWD leased areas like Cooper, Town Bluff, White Oak, etc and concealed carry - has been thoroughly flogged here on the forum.

Ahhh...my bad. Just the title "State Park" threw me off. It still makes no sense to me that you have some large expanses of property there (which evidently are also COE controlled) which ARE open to hunting and firearms...the area between Lake Whitney State Park and McCowan Valley for example. Haven't been over there in years, but we used to run Fieldtrials for birddogs over there and used to hunt quail in there also. Guess I should state that since it's been at least 15 years since I was there that this may no longer hold true.

[priusron]

I disagree with rottenapple. There is no requirement for me to check any website to see if they're posted 51 percent or 30.06. They have a requirement to post that sign.

[srothstein]

Priusron,

I suggest you check the law on 51% locations again. Note that the wording of the law says that it is a violation to go on a premise if it is 51% as determined by TABC. It does not say if it is posted, but says if it is 51%.

Yes, there is another law that says that they are required to post a sign. But that does not affect your guilt or innocence in violating the above law. And to confuse things even further, if the sign is not posted properly, the law does provide you a legal defense. This should help you, but it does not protect you from arrest.

So, you are correct that you do not have a responsibility to check the TABC database. Checking it may help keep you from taking an uncomfortable rie wearing a shiny new set of bracelets, though.

On the other half, you are 100% correct. For a 30.06 sign to mean anything, there is a long list of requirements that they must meet when they post it. Even if you did look it up somewhere first, and find there as reported to be a sign posted, it means nothing to you. That law is clear on requiring notice as provided by a sign.

[priusron]

I dont drink so I don't go places that are 51%. Also it can be difficult to determine if a park is COE.