30.06 on apartment complex parking lot

[68Charger]

Short answer is no.

[cmwoodruff]

Parking lots and side-walks are not considered part of a "premesis" as defined in CHL laws, so I'm pretty sure the signs are useless legally as far as the parking lot goes. Not sure about the appartments though. I'm curious about this also now, because I would think that each apt would have to be marked seperately at the entrances if they are different buildings. If they are connected, would one sign cover the entire building?

The landlord can give notice in writing (lease) using the same 30.06 language. But my question would be.. Is the renter covered by the castle law in some way? I'm pretty sure that I saw owned or leased property in there somewhere.. I'm way too tired right now to go searching through laws...

...anyone...? lol

[G26ster]

Parking lots and side-walks are not considered part of a "premesis" as defined in CHL laws, so I'm pretty sure the signs are useless legally as far as the parking lot goes. Not sure about the appartments though. I'm curious about this also now, because I would think that each apt would have to be marked seperately at the entrances if they are different buildings. If they are connected, would one sign cover the entire building?

The landlord can give notice in writing (lease) using the same 30.06 language. But my question would be.. Is the renter covered by the castle law in some way? I'm pretty sure that I saw owned or leased property in there somewhere.. I'm way too tired right now to go searching through laws...

...anyone...? lol

PC 30.06 covers "property" not just premises.

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:

(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and

(2) received notice that:

(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or

(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.

(c) In this section:

(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).

(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).

(3) "Written communication" means:

(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or

(B) a sign posted on the property that:

(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;

(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and

(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

[sdmahoney]

If it is not in the lease, I would think you would be OK. They cannot restrict you from having it in your car, nor is it illegal to carry it from your car to your dwelling, so I would think 30.06 does not apply in these cases. In addition, it would be hard for them to say you were trespassing on property you were paying to rent. If it is in your lease, then you may have issues, as a landlord can restrict many common things in a lease, and the lease is a contract. Of course, I am not a lawyer, so I very well could be wrong. Either way, I'd be looking for a new place if a landlord posted a 30.06 sign. Luckily, I don't have to deal with landlords or homeowner's associations anymore.

[bdickens]

It absolutely defies logic to think that since an apartment, house, or hotel room for that matter, that you are renting is legally considered your home and you have all the rights afforded to a person in his home, that a landlord could legally prevent you from legally carrying there.

[RottenApple]

Sounds like a possible conflict area of the law. Castle Doctrine & MPA allow you to own, possess, & carry a firearm in your car & in your home. But the 30.06 sign prohibits you from carrying on the property. So it seems to me that in your apartment or vehicle you are fine to carry and the 30.06 doesn't mean anything. But you can't carry in the common areas of the complex (parking lot - except to/from your vehicle/apartment, playgrounds, walkways, etc). But, with no case law to show the way out.....

Hopefully Charles, Jallan, or one of our other resident legal beagles will chime in.....

ETA: Personally, I would be tempted to walk around the complex with an openly carried long gun. Mind you, I wouldn't actually do it or recommend someone else to, but I'd be tempted to.

[Dadtodabone]

Similar issues raised in this thread, pretty through discussion.
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[srothstein]

Notice under 30.06 is legal and valid for the parking lot and common areas of the apartment complex. They are not considered premises under your control since they are not in your lease.

But, if you are driving or on the way directly to your car, the law does not make carrying your weapon illegal, so you don't need 30.06 and the sign has no effective notice on you. And since the apartment is leased, it is under your control and again, you don't need your CHL and the notice is not valid.

BUT, and this is an important but, the sign at the entrance to the parking lot would be effective notice to all common areas of the complex. You could not legally carry when you went to the mailbox or the office to pay your rent, or the pool, etc. And it would apply to your visitors when they were out of their car, also.

I agree with the other posters that they could put a clause in the lease that would ban your guns from the property. I am not sure if the clause would make it illegal to carry in your apartment, even if it were worded properly. 46.02 still says when not on property under your control and the apartment would still be under your control even if the lease banned the pistols. But I would caution that this is a much grayer area of the law and this is just my non-binding on anyone opinion.

[sjfcontrol]

Sounds like a possible conflict area of the law. Castle Doctrine & MPA allow you to own, possess, & carry a firearm in your car & in your home. But the 30.06 sign prohibits you from carrying on the property. So it seems to me that in your apartment or vehicle you are fine to carry and the 30.06 doesn't mean anything. But you can't carry in the common areas of the complex (parking lot - except to/from your vehicle/apartment, playgrounds, walkways, etc). But, with no case law to show the way out.....

Hopefully Charles, Jallan, or one of our other resident legal beagles will chime in.....

ETA: Personally, I would be tempted to walk around the complex with an openly carried long gun. Mind you, I wouldn't actually do it or recommend someone else to, but I'd be tempted to.

The Castle Doctrine has nothing to do with where you can legally carry. It deals only with when a shooting is presumed justified.

[bizarrenormality]

The Castle Doctrine has nothing to do with where you can legally carry. It deals only with when a shooting is presumed justified.

I also want to remind people that the parking lot law applies to the employer-employee relationship, not the landlord-tenant relationship. We know commercial property landlords can prohibit firearms and I can't find anything in the law that says residential property landlords can't do the same.

[Dirthawking]

I think I would find a new place to rent. Just my 2 cents.

[RoyGBiv]

I'll venture a guess (didn't do any legal checking) that the landlord is within their rights to prohibit weapons. Your choices seem to be the following:

1. Ignore the new rule and risk getting evicted, possibly losing your deposits, incurring possible legal costs, etc. or.
2. Inform the landlord that you will not comply with the new rule and unless you receive written exemption to the new rule you are terminating your lease, without penalty, effective immediately. Then move.

(IIRC, UCC typically has a provision that if your contract is changed in this way and you do not intend to comply, that the contract can be nullified within a certain time period from the time you are notified of the change.... Basically, if they change the contract to something you cannot accept, they have to release you from the contract without penalty, as long as you take action promptly.... It's been a LONG while since I last read TX UCC, so, this is just my opinion, not legal advice. IANAL.)

There is probably a state office for tenants rights you can call to get a more official answer.