"PRINTING": how much is too much?

[ATDM]

I'll start with the definition: "A concealed handgun is a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person."

As a new CHL holder I have done some research online, as well as asked some experienced CHL holders the interpretation of "openly discernible", "ordinary observation", and "reasonable person" terms. That's when I learned yet another term — "printing."

I have been carrying my beloved XDm for a couple of weeks now, and I know that I may not be objective about my own concealing abilities; but even when my wife and kids tell me that they cannot really "discern" that I am carrying — when I look in the mirror, it seems obvious to me that there is something "weapony" under that loose shirt. A LEO or a gun lover can detect it very easily. However, my primary concern is not as much the detection of my weapon, as it is the legal acceptability of the minor printing.

Is there a legal document, precedent or guideline regarding how much of the printing is legal and acceptable? Or, is it fully reliant on discretion and common sense? "They can tell there is something there, but they cannot tell what it is for sure" principle...

Thank you in advance for helping out the rookie... (A rookie CHL holder, not a rookie gun lover )

[Dori]

I'll start with the definition: "A concealed handgun is a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person."

Can they tell it's a gun? Then it's not concealed.

[ATDM]

I'll start with the definition: "A concealed handgun is a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person."

Can they tell it's a gun? Then it's not concealed.

At this point no one seems to have noticed anything at all - even my friends and neighbors, but had the taken a closer look, they'd be able to tell that there is something there. However, they wouldn't be able to tell it's a gun, unless they were to guess...

[BigGuy]

I have been carrying my beloved XDm for a couple of weeks now, and I know that I may not be objective about my own concealing abilities; but even when my wife and kids tell me that they cannot really "discern" that I am carrying — when I look in the mirror, it seems obvious to me that there is something "weapony" under that loose shirt.

I carry at 3:30 to 4:00 in a Crossbreed Supertuck IWB. When I look in the mirror, I see a huge bulge where the grip presses against my shirt. That's even with the 10 round magazine, rather than the 17 round with grip extender. I've asked my wife to let me know if I ever "show." (The only time she ever said I was showing was once when I had an empty holster.) I kind of thought that my friends where just politely not mentioning it, but could see that HUGE bulge on my waist.
I was surprised a couple of weeks ago when at our regular Friday night get-together, one of them mentioned that I was getting a CHL and asked if I was going to start carrying. Another one chimed in and also wanted to know if I was going to start. "toting." (I've been carrying since I got my CHL more than a year ago. At that time, I had the SR9c on my hip at 4:00 and my LCP in my hip pocket, as well as a spare magazine for each clipped at 9:00 on my belt.
I just said I was thinking about it.

[JJVP]

I'll start with the definition: "A concealed handgun is a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person."

As a new CHL holder I have done some research online, as well as asked some experienced CHL holders the interpretation of "openly discernible", "ordinary observation", and "reasonable person" terms. That's when I learned yet another term — "printing."

I have been carrying my beloved XDm for a couple of weeks now, and I know that I may not be objective about my own concealing abilities; but even when my wife and kids tell me that they cannot really "discern" that I am carrying — when I look in the mirror, it seems obvious to me that there is something "weapony" under that loose shirt. A LEO or a gun lover can detect it very easily. However, my primary concern is not as much the detection of my weapon, as it is the legal acceptability of the minor printing.

Is there a legal document, precedent or guideline regarding how much of the printing is legal and acceptable? Or, is it fully reliant on discretion and common sense? "They can tell there is something there, but they cannot tell what it is for sure" principle...

Thank you in advance for helping out the rookie... (A rookie CHL holder, not a rookie gun lover )

Why don't you ask your wife to take a few pics at different angles (front, back, side) with you normal carry attire and post them here. Then we can give you some advise. Impossible to tell w/o pics.

[nyj]

You'll find a few things out in your first year of carrying. You'll probably switch holsters numerous times because you think your gun shows too much. Then you'll get to a point where you don't care.

Texas has lax laws on the subject. There are no laws defining 'printing,' that I'm aware of. 9 out of 10 people don't notice anything, and those who do notice, are probably packing, too. I carry a somewhat oversized J frame in my front pocket. When I'm not carrying that, I'm carrying a full size Glock 20 that has a little 'bump' from under the shirt.

I'm not saying be negligent in carrying and make no effort to conceal, just know that in a room full of people, you're the most conscious of the fact that your gun is printing.

[ATDM]

Why don't you ask your wife to take a few pics at different angles (front, back, side) with you normal carry attire and post them here. Then we can give you some advise. Impossible to tell w/o pics.

That's a great idea. It will be much more effective than looking in the mirror, even if I examine the pictures myself. I don't know why I didn't think of that.

Thanks.

[ATDM]

You'll find a few things out in your first year of carrying. You'll probably switch holsters numerous times because you think your gun shows too much. Then you'll get to a point where you don't care.

Texas has lax laws on the subject. There are no laws defining 'printing,' that I'm aware of. 9 out of 10 people don't notice anything, and those who do notice, are probably packing, too. I carry a somewhat oversized J frame in my front pocket. When I'm not carrying that, I'm carrying a full size Glock 20 that has a little 'bump' from under the shirt.

I'm not saying be negligent in carrying and make no effort to conceal, just know that in a room full of people, you're the most conscious of the fact that your gun is printing.

This makes sense. I anticipated that I would be my own harshest critic regarding the concealment — such is the nature of human psychology. I just don't want to break the law or put my family in danger by not being careful. That's why I am trying to err on the side of caution. Even in the last two weeks my understanding has progressed, as well as my methods and gun positioning. Once I receive my Kholster, I anticipate a few weeks of adjusting to that.

Thanks.

[K.Mooneyham]

There is no such thing as "printing" in Texas Penal Code in regards to carrying a concealed handgun. For you to be "printing", you'd have to be wearing something tight enough so that someone could read the brand name on the handgun. I know I'm exaggerating, but I did it to make a point. If someone can't obviously tell its a firearm, then its just a bump under your clothing. Could be a cell phone case...could be a medical device...could be a multi-tool in a pouch...could be anything. And thus, nobody's business.

[ATDM]

There is no such thing as "printing" in Texas Penal Code in regards to carrying a concealed handgun. For you to be "printing", you'd have to be wearing something tight enough so that someone could read the brand name on the handgun. I know I'm exaggerating, but I did it to make a point. If someone can't obviously tell its a firearm, then its just a bump under your clothing. Could be a cell phone case...could be a medical device...could be a multi-tool in a pouch...could be anything. And thus, nobody's business.

If I understand you and the law correctly, I can't be stopped by a cop for an undefinable small bulge on my waste. It would have to be a gun-shaped object, correct?

[texanjoker]

There is no such thing as "printing" in Texas Penal Code in regards to carrying a concealed handgun. For you to be "printing", you'd have to be wearing something tight enough so that someone could read the brand name on the handgun. I know I'm exaggerating, but I did it to make a point. If someone can't obviously tell its a firearm, then its just a bump under your clothing. Could be a cell phone case...could be a medical device...could be a multi-tool in a pouch...could be anything. And thus, nobody's business.

If I understand you and the law correctly, I can't be stopped by a cop for an undefinable small bulge on my waste. It would have to be a gun-shaped object, correct?

If a leo sees somebody with a hard bulky object, and based on their training and experience they believe it may be a gun, they can may stop you. Now if they believe it is a cell phone that is a different story.

[nyj]

There is no such thing as "printing" in Texas Penal Code in regards to carrying a concealed handgun. For you to be "printing", you'd have to be wearing something tight enough so that someone could read the brand name on the handgun. I know I'm exaggerating, but I did it to make a point. If someone can't obviously tell its a firearm, then its just a bump under your clothing. Could be a cell phone case...could be a medical device...could be a multi-tool in a pouch...could be anything. And thus, nobody's business.

If I understand you and the law correctly, I can't be stopped by a cop for an undefinable small bulge on my waste. It would have to be a gun-shaped object, correct?

If a leo sees somebody with a hard bulky object, and based on their training and experience they believe it may be a gun, they can may stop you. Now if they believe it is a cell phone that is a different story.

And what exactly is that officer going to charge you with?

Yeah, not happening.

[tomtexan]

As time goes on you will find out that nobody notices.

[Blindref757]

It always looks like a gun when you know it is a gun. Joe public doesn't see it, and if they do, they don't know for sure what it is. It could be an insulin pump, a cell phone, etc. It is part of being new to CHL. Over the next few months, the gun will shrink, your dress will change slightly whether that be longer shirts or a better holster etc. You won't feel like the gun is huge for long!!!

[texanjoker]

There is no such thing as "printing" in Texas Penal Code in regards to carrying a concealed handgun. For you to be "printing", you'd have to be wearing something tight enough so that someone could read the brand name on the handgun. I know I'm exaggerating, but I did it to make a point. If someone can't obviously tell its a firearm, then its just a bump under your clothing. Could be a cell phone case...could be a medical device...could be a multi-tool in a pouch...could be anything. And thus, nobody's business.

If I understand you and the law correctly, I can't be stopped by a cop for an undefinable small bulge on my waste. It would have to be a gun-shaped object, correct?

If a leo sees somebody with a hard bulky object, and based on their training and experience they believe it may be a gun, they can may stop you. Now if they believe it is a cell phone that is a different story.

And what exactly is that officer going to charge you with?

Yeah, not happening.

Never said they were going to charge you but the post was about being stopped.