Virginia governor closes gun loophole

Wildscar · Post by **Wildscar** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:38 am

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070430/ap_ ... ginia_tech

By BOB LEWIS, Associated Press Writer 28 minutes ago
RICHMOND, Va. - The governor said Monday he has closed the loophole that allowed a mentally disturbed Virginia Tech student to acquire the guns he used to kill 32 students and faculty members.
Gov. Timothy M. Kaine issued an executive order requiring that a database of people who are prohibited from buying guns include anyone found to be dangerous and ordered to undergo involuntary mental health treatment.
Seung-Hui Cho had been ordered by a court to undergo psychiatric counseling after a judge ruled that he was a danger to himself.
But because Cho was treated as an outpatient and never committed to a mental health hospital, the court finding never made it into the database that gun dealers must check before selling a firearm. The law prohibits selling firearms to people judged to have mental disabilities.

stevie_d_64 · Post by **stevie_d_64** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:24 pm

And after it is determined that you are "not" dangerous, or "unstable" you are off the hook???

I sure hope someone "credible", "stable" and "apolitical" determines the definitions applied to these terms...

Not that I am against the concept, but when you arbitrarily decree something like this you had better figure out a way for those who do not apply in this case a clear way out...

Like I have said before...You guys and gals make me King for a day...I'll have all these anoying little things taken care of, no problemo!

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:37 pm

I suspect that someone who gets on this list is well and truly farkled. Lawyers and psychiatrists' services are very expensive, and I doubt that any government agency is going to assist you.

- Jim

Big Calhoun · Post by **Big Calhoun** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:53 pm

I dunno...this is a tough call. Having a relative that is mentally ill, I have had to deal with some court-related issues here and there. For a judge to say that someone is a 'danger' just seems to leave too much subjectivity at play. Then you could also debate what is a judges experience and training in making that evaluation? I could just see some guy standing in front of a judge because he said wanted to punch someones lights out and the judge using that to say he needs to be checked out, and thus, barred from purchasing firearms. And of course, once you're on the 'list', has does one get themselves off after it's revealed that they really aren't a danger, but just having a bad day, or someone miscontrued some statements, etc. etc. This just reeks of another 'feel good' law that ultimately will accomplish very little.

wjmphoto · Post by **wjmphoto** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:20 pm

The Virginia Governor is not creating a new law here, he is simply requiring the courts to report those who are adjudicated mentally ill because they are a danger to themselves or others and required to undergo involuntary mental health treatment rather than being institutionalized to the NICS system. I don't have a problem with this if there are mental health professionals involved (more than one) in making the determination and the court is simply there to issue the order.

No one can argue that if Cho's adjudication status had been reported to NICS then we would not have to listen to the droning on in the news and from the Brady bunch about Cho buying the gun legally. He would have had to buy the gun through other "channels" or choose another means by which to commit multiple homicides. That would have been a good thing for us as we would not have to go through another round of anti-gun rhetoric triggered by this event. (My bet is that the gun store owner would be a lot happier without this sitting over his head as well, had the government done its job and told him to refuse sale to Cho.)

I have no problem with people who are dangerous and mentally ill being kept from purchasing a firearm so long as the definition of mentally ill is not broadened to include every little thing under the sun. There has to be a clear and distinct definition and limitation on the law so that it is not applied to people who are having mental issues that are not a threat to anyone else. There are far more types of mental illness out there that are not a threat to society, that do not make people a danger to themselves or others and are basically minor than ones that will cause the type of behavior that we witnessed at VT. We really don't need another stigma placed on people in our society as there are already more than enough of them to go around.

I would also hope that the reporting requirements will also include a means of allowing these people to be removed from the database once they have been certified no longer a danger. I have no issue with requiring a waiting period for such people to be able to purchse a gun just as we have with those who have been convicted of certain crimes before they can apply for a CHL. But I do have issue with a permanent restriction that cannot be removed once the person is effectively cured of their disorder and has shown a history of normality for a set period of time.

Venus Pax · Post by **Venus Pax** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:44 pm

I don't know that closing the loophole would help. If someone is bent on getting a gun to commit a crime, that person will get it.
I would like to see them allow CHLers onto campuses with concealed weapons.

jrosto · Post by **jrosto** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:07 pm

If someone has been determined to be a danger to himself and to society, then why is he able to mingle with society without a custodian?

If the Governor of VA were actually interested in protecting his constituency from mentally disturbed violent individuals, then he would be working on a means to assist in identifying and treating such individuals. Instead he takes the easy way out and makes this executive order that will basically accomplish nothing except deny even more free citizens their unalienable right to keep and bear arms.