Have you had the same feeling?
Since the VT shooting, had many discussions with some of diehard antis, mostly women. The thing I don't understand is that women, by nature, are very vulnerable; however, they not only don't want to protect themselves, but also want to disarm men who WANT to protect their women.
Their attitude is: you have a gun, you must be dangerous; I don't like guns, so you must not have it either.
I guess there are people who just like to bury their heads in sand and pretend everything is nice and dandy, even though they are fully aware that police is not there to protect them.
Denial does keep some people happy.
Having finished my vent, my thought before was that my conscience wouldn't let me walk away from something that I knew I could have helped, but now, I am at the point of saying: what do I care? they don't even care for their own safety, why should I risk my life and load of lawsuits to save them? Well, should anything happen, I would be the perfect witness if that; if something like Katrina happened, I would level my guns and tell them to take a hike if they came to my house for safety.
Am I becoming cold-hearted now? The more I speak to them, the more I feel this way.
Have you had the same feeling?
Sad.
Have you?
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Have you?
Please help the wounded store owner who fought off 3 robbers. He doesn't have medical insurance.
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nuparadigm
- Senior Member
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- Location: Ft. Bend County
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Welcome to the club, Stupid. There are very few folks for whom I'd "go to the mat". The Anti's are not among them. The social/civil cost is just too great these days - even when one goes there for one's self. I agree, it is sad because there's something in each of us that really wants to protect them.
The irony here is who is the more "compassionate"? Mr. Stupid or Mr. Nuparadigm (who might sense a distant duty to actually protect an innocent 3rd party from death)? Or is it Mr. Anti who freely admits that he/she will do nothing but verbally plead with the deadly force if it ends-up threatening Stupid or Nuparadigm. The Antis may be our countrymen, but they're probably not our friends.
The irony here is who is the more "compassionate"? Mr. Stupid or Mr. Nuparadigm (who might sense a distant duty to actually protect an innocent 3rd party from death)? Or is it Mr. Anti who freely admits that he/she will do nothing but verbally plead with the deadly force if it ends-up threatening Stupid or Nuparadigm. The Antis may be our countrymen, but they're probably not our friends.
The last train out of any station will not be filled with nice people.
Remember Newton and Azrak.
Remember Newton and Azrak.
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kauboy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 846
- Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:15 pm
- Location: Burleson, Lone Star State (of course)
I completely understand your sentiment. But, being the faithful Christian that I am, I could not sit idly by and watch Sarah Brady herself being beaten, raped, etc... without stepping in and fending off her assailants, with my gun if necessary.
You are not alone in your feelings of futility. You will never be able to change the mind of an irrational emotionalist (I made a new word
). They cannot see the simplistic view that we have. Bad PEOPLE do bad things. Its not the tool they use that commits the crime.
But they will never understand that.
You can't approach this debate from how you see it. You have to appeal to their emotion first, and then gradually (very gradually) introduce facts. Too much, too quick, and they will throw up the wall and you'll have to start all over.
You are not alone in your feelings of futility. You will never be able to change the mind of an irrational emotionalist (I made a new word
). They cannot see the simplistic view that we have. Bad PEOPLE do bad things. Its not the tool they use that commits the crime. But they will never understand that.
You can't approach this debate from how you see it. You have to appeal to their emotion first, and then gradually (very gradually) introduce facts. Too much, too quick, and they will throw up the wall and you'll have to start all over.
"People should not be afraid of their Governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people." - V
Governments should be afraid of their people." - V
Unfortunately, people in general, not just women, prefer to simplifiy things to the lowest common denominator. They look at VT, Columbine and other mass shootings and see "guns did this". They think, "Without guns, this could not have happened." Remind them of the Oklahoma City bombing and point out that no guns were used to kill 168 men women and children as well as injure another 800, but instead a vanload of fertilizer was used and they will give you a blank stare. Their retort is predictable - "Guns are made to kill people! That is their only purpose! Fertilizer was just abused in this case and is not evil like a gun!"
Point out that there were other common denominators in these shootings like mental illness, abuse in school by their piers and other factors and they will disregard them and go back to "without guns this could not have happened." Point out that the worst school killing in US history was in Bath Michigan and a bomb was used, not a gun and again you will get the same blank stare.
The unfortunate truth is that anti's are guilty of oversimplification and denial. Their mindset is guns are bad, ban them and all will be rosey. They make no effort to look to why people commit the acts that they do and ignore the incidents that were much more devastating and yet not a single gun was used to commit them. The real truth is that stopping these types of incidents requires much more than simple gun control, it requires us to actually work toward learning why killers kill. Learning how to identify and help those who have the potential to do great harm to others.
We already know that Cho had serious mental health issues and the state did nothing about it. We know that the kids at Columbine were victims of abuse and hazing. Did anyone do a thing to stop the abuse when it first started. Did anyone do a thing to protect these kids and help them to grow into normal adults rather than becoming bitter victims of verbal and physical abuse. The blame does not lay upon guns or gun owners, the blame lays upon a society that refuses to take responsibility for allowing this type of abuse to happen to kids in school. If the Brady's of the world really cared about stopping violence they would look to the real cause rather than than being simple minded people with equally simple minded logic that does not bear out to the facts of reality. That reality is not that guns are bad but instead that some people end up becoming bad, sometimes through no fault of their own, and using guns or anything else they can get their hands on in order to hurt others. Stripping citizens of their right of self defense is not a solution to this problem; it is the one thing that guarantees that the bad guys of the world will be empowered when they decide to carry out their actions to their deadly end result.
Point out that there were other common denominators in these shootings like mental illness, abuse in school by their piers and other factors and they will disregard them and go back to "without guns this could not have happened." Point out that the worst school killing in US history was in Bath Michigan and a bomb was used, not a gun and again you will get the same blank stare.
The unfortunate truth is that anti's are guilty of oversimplification and denial. Their mindset is guns are bad, ban them and all will be rosey. They make no effort to look to why people commit the acts that they do and ignore the incidents that were much more devastating and yet not a single gun was used to commit them. The real truth is that stopping these types of incidents requires much more than simple gun control, it requires us to actually work toward learning why killers kill. Learning how to identify and help those who have the potential to do great harm to others.
We already know that Cho had serious mental health issues and the state did nothing about it. We know that the kids at Columbine were victims of abuse and hazing. Did anyone do a thing to stop the abuse when it first started. Did anyone do a thing to protect these kids and help them to grow into normal adults rather than becoming bitter victims of verbal and physical abuse. The blame does not lay upon guns or gun owners, the blame lays upon a society that refuses to take responsibility for allowing this type of abuse to happen to kids in school. If the Brady's of the world really cared about stopping violence they would look to the real cause rather than than being simple minded people with equally simple minded logic that does not bear out to the facts of reality. That reality is not that guns are bad but instead that some people end up becoming bad, sometimes through no fault of their own, and using guns or anything else they can get their hands on in order to hurt others. Stripping citizens of their right of self defense is not a solution to this problem; it is the one thing that guarantees that the bad guys of the world will be empowered when they decide to carry out their actions to their deadly end result.
I get irritated with these people too.
I wish I could say that I would step in and rescue a stranger or known anti, but I simply wouldn't. The price is just too high. It would not only cost me (money, time, reputation, even employment) in criminal court (and the anti may just be there to testify against me), but my family would lose everything in civil court.
If there were safeguards for us, I may think differently, but there aren't. My family and I are first.
I wish I could say that I would step in and rescue a stranger or known anti, but I simply wouldn't. The price is just too high. It would not only cost me (money, time, reputation, even employment) in criminal court (and the anti may just be there to testify against me), but my family would lose everything in civil court.
If there were safeguards for us, I may think differently, but there aren't. My family and I are first.
"If a man breaks in your house, he ain't there for iced tea." Mom & Dad.
The NRA & TSRA are a bargain; they're much cheaper than the cold, dead hands experience.
The NRA & TSRA are a bargain; they're much cheaper than the cold, dead hands experience.
One thing I learned is that most of people do not want to admit that, in the world, there are evil human species who would come and hurt the innocent.
Blaming on inhuman objects is a way for them to live with their denial. They think if the "evil" object is gone, the real evil would be gone.
The only way to change their mind is hard cold fact - not things we see in the news, things actually fall upon them. Even so, some would probably rather die than admit the evil exists.
They know they are wrong and they know it by heart. Just denial.
Blaming on inhuman objects is a way for them to live with their denial. They think if the "evil" object is gone, the real evil would be gone.
The only way to change their mind is hard cold fact - not things we see in the news, things actually fall upon them. Even so, some would probably rather die than admit the evil exists.
They know they are wrong and they know it by heart. Just denial.
Please help the wounded store owner who fought off 3 robbers. He doesn't have medical insurance.
http://www.giveforward.com/ramoncastillo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.click2houston.com/news/26249961/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.giveforward.com/ramoncastillo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Last week I saw the figure in a news article: one camera for every 14 people in Britain.Russell wrote:Also think of this scary thought: Has anyone seen the movie V for Vendetta? Notice how even though it was a work of fiction, Britain really is turning out exactly like that movie?
- Thousands of cameras so the government can always keep an eye on you.
- Speakers being put on the cameras so that "The Authorities" can yell at you.
Including dozens within view of George Orwell's home. The irony is rich enough to pay off the national debt.
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Dirt Dauber
- Junior Member
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:11 am
- Location: small corner of Lee Co.
Yeah those cameras are really protecting the shee...excuse me I meant the people. I agree the antis are in denial, always have been and always will be...sad. On the other hand my wonderful Bride realizes that most of the time she is responsible for her well being. I cannot nor the police cannot be there all the time. Besides she's a much better shot than I am! DD
After the VT shootings, there have been some crazy things coming from the anti's out there. A couple [abbreviated profanity deleted] examples are:
"I would rather be raped than have some redneck with a gun save me."
"If I were in one of those classrooms, I would have been furious if someone pulled out a gun and shot Cho. People have no right carrying guns."
Do these people even stop to think about what they are saying. They would rather be dead or raped than have a law abiding citizen save their life with a firearm? What kind of head cases are these people? They are certainly irrational to say the least.
"I would rather be raped than have some redneck with a gun save me."
"If I were in one of those classrooms, I would have been furious if someone pulled out a gun and shot Cho. People have no right carrying guns."
Do these people even stop to think about what they are saying. They would rather be dead or raped than have a law abiding citizen save their life with a firearm? What kind of head cases are these people? They are certainly irrational to say the least.
The power of denial is stronger than most people think.Stupid wrote:One thing I learned is that most of people do not want to admit that, in the world, there are evil human species who would come and hurt the innocent.
Blaming on inhuman objects is a way for them to live with their denial. They think if the "evil" object is gone, the real evil would be gone.
The only way to change their mind is hard cold fact - not things we see in the news, things actually fall upon them. Even so, some would probably rather die than admit the evil exists.
They know they are wrong and they know it by heart. Just denial.