FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

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Beiruty
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FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

Post by Beiruty »

At Frisco Gun Club, last night, at the rifle range, I removed my concealment vest and shot my SIG556 rifle for like 2 hrs.
As it legal to OC at a firing range and this is the not first time I do that, a nice lady shows up when I was packing up to leave and informed me:
I have been observed on the CCTV cameras that I :
1) OC my pistol
2) I slinged my SIG rifle (after I made sure it was cleared) while packing.
Both are a no-no policy of the FGC.
I politely explained that my OC is legal and since she insisted that it is FGC policy of no-OC at the range. I agreed to put on my vest. Of course, my SIG went inside its case.

It is really ridiculous treatment and short sighted policy against OC. Both OC of pistol and long rifle are legal at a range.
On the other hand, all the employes are also open carrying their pistols. Encourage your employee to OC but not your high-dollars paying club member :mad5 :mad5 :headscratch

If OC is lawful in 2015, will such policy hold water?
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Re: FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

Post by Dragonfighter »

Beiruty wrote:<SNIP>

If OC is lawful in 2015, will such policy hold water?
I am sure several here will say, "Their business, their rules."

I personally think there are ethical and should be legal exceptions to this, but I am in the minority.
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Re: FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

Post by mojo84 »

I can see their point about the rifle. It's a safety issue more than a legal issue. Most all ranges I go to require your gins to be pointed down range at all times. This isn't possible with a rifle hanging from one's neck.

The oen carry of the handgun is not as big a problem to me if it remains in the holster.u
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Re: FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

Post by jmra »

Were you presented with/did you agree to a copy of the rules prior to using the range?
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Re: FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

Post by MechAg94 »

I think my range requires the rifles be on the tables or on the rack stands provided. I am not sure if anyone would complain, but if someone turned on the cease fire light, you aren't supposed to be handling a weapon. I would suggest you either leave it sitting their while packing up or go ahead and put it in the vehicle.

On the OC, I am not sure. They do have a rule against drawing and firing at the range. However, I don't think OC is against the current rules as long as it stays holstered.
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Re: FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

Post by jbarn »

Many ranges do not allow open carry. Others do not allow draw from the holster to shoot.

Sometimes the reasons for rules or policies are not evident to those with no idea of what it takes to run such a business. Most policies are reasonable, even if it is not clear to you why. I don't imagine they just decided to have such policy to aggravate customers.
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Re: FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

Post by jbarn »

Beiruty wrote:At Frisco Gun Club, last night, at the rifle range, I removed my concealment vest and shot my SIG556 rifle for like 2 hrs.
As it legal to OC at a firing range and this is the not first time I do that, a nice lady shows up when I was packing up to leave and informed me:
I have been observed on the CCTV cameras that I :
1) OC my pistol
2) I slinged my SIG rifle (after I made sure it was cleared) while packing.
Both are a no-no policy of the FGC.
I politely explained that my OC is legal and since she insisted that it is FGC policy of no-OC at the range. I agreed to put on my vest. Of course, my SIG went inside its case.

It is really ridiculous treatment and short sighted policy against OC. Both OC of pistol and long rifle are legal at a range.
On the other hand, all the employes are also open carrying their pistols. Encourage your employee to OC but not your high-dollars paying club member :mad5 :mad5 :headscratch
How is it short sighted?
If OC is lawful in 2015, will such policy hold water?
Of course it will.
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Re: FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

Post by txglock21 »

Just another reason I rarely go to ranges. I understand most of their rules are for safety reasons of the masses, but I perfer shooting on homemade ranges on private property. I understand most don't have this luxury, but if you can, it's worth it. :cheers2:
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Re: FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

Post by Beiruty »

Why is it short sighted?
1) How do you trust someone to handle a hot and loaded rifle/pistol at the range, and deny him OC (when said pistol is safely holstered) for safety reasons?
2) What is the difference between employees who OC and CHLers?
3) Do they support OC when it is lawful?
4) Concealed carry is OK, OC is not. Is concealed carry any safer?
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Re: FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

Post by The Annoyed Man »

I've shot at a number of ranges since moving to DFW, and I am both a member at DPC and a regular customer at Elm Fork. The only places I have seen regular customers OC is at DPC.....which is a private gun club. Non members can only shoot there when they are a guest of, and accompanied by, a paying member. People OC at DPC, but only on an active range that they are using, or confined to a specific area during a competition. Competitions aside, you don't see people just walking around OC'ing willy-nilly. Here's what the DPC rules say:
  1. FIREARM HANDLING AND TRANSPORT
  2. DPC operates as a cold range at all times: That means all firearms must be empty, with hammer down, and magazine out except on a firing line when firing and except for firearms carried under the authority of Texas CHL laws and that remain concealed.
  3. If you have a Concealed Handgun License and are carrying a loaded firearm when you arrive at the range, the firearm must either remain concealed, be secured in your vehicle or unloaded as soon as safely possible on one of the ranges or in one of the safe areas if the firearm is to be used in a match.
  4. During matches, firearm handling or loading may begin only upon instruction from the Range Officer.
  5. Empty firearms may be transported via holster, shooter's bag, box, pistol rug, or carrying case
    anywhere on DPC property.
  6. Firearms are to remain in the holster, bag, box, etc. unless on the firing line or in the safe areas. No ammunition is allowed in the safe area.
  7. Firearms may not be handled when anyone is down-range. All firearms must be unloaded before anyone goes down-range. Any competition match or organized practice involving multiple shooters at a common firing line: e.g., Bullseye, Silhouette, must utilize Empty Chamber Indicator (ECI) devices to show an empty chamber when shooters go downrange leaving grounded firearms at the firing line.
In short, people don't OC a loaded gun at DPC, unless they are on the firing range, preparing to fire that gun.

As far as Elm Fork goes, the rules say:
  • It is MANDATORY for everyone on the range to wear ear and eye protection.
  • Shoot only from the designated firing lane. Do not pass beyond the tables unless you are expressly authorized to do so by the Range Officer.
  • No steel targets or personal targets may be used.
  • Actions must be open when gun is unloaded and at all times when not engaged in shooting.
  • One shot per second. NO RAPID FIRE.
  • No shooting from the hip or drawing from the holster.
  • Always be sure it is safe to shoot at your targeted including what is beyond it.
  • If two people use the same firearm, it must be placed on the table, unloaded, with the action open before the next person may use it. [This pretty much excludes any kind of OC.]
  • Every firearm, loaded or unloaded, must be pointed down range at all times. [This pretty much excludes any kind of OC.]
  • Accidental or negligent discharge will result in immediate removal from the range.
The fact is, nobody is open carrying at Elm Fork, except perhaps the occasional LEO.

I am not against open carry, and my posting record supports that statement. That said, it doesn't matter if it is legal or not to OC at a pistol range in Texas. The owners tell you in their rules what they will permit on their property. Right or wrong, their rules are generally dictated by two things: 1) commonly accepted rules of gun safety, and 2) whatever demands the insurance companies add on top of that in order get insurance a rate the range owner can afford. If that means they don't want you open carrying a loaded, holstered pistol, that is their right, and it has little or nothing to do with whether or not the proscribed behavior is legal. it may be perfectly legal to go 55 mph outside the city limits in Texas, but that doesn't mean I'll let you go 55 mph on my property (assuming I have a large enough property). If I decide that people are limited to 10 mph because that's what I think is safe, then that's what I'll enforce. If someone won't respect that, then he can get the hell off my property.

I don't think OC in a gun range is unsafe. Not for a minute do I believe it. But if I don't own the range, I don't get to make the call. I suppose that if I cared about it strongly enough, I could withhold my dollars and take my business somewhere else. But I'm not mad at shooting ranges for not allowing OC. I'm mad at politicians for not passing it. Please note that concealed carry is not banned at either of the above ranges I've mentioned. Concealed carry is legal. OC is not legal, and so local ranges tend not to support it. But I'll bet you that if OC passes, within a year or two local shooting ranges will probably change their rules to accommodate it.
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Re: FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

Post by WildBill »

The Annoyed Man wrote:OC is not legal, and so local ranges tend not to support it. But I'll bet you that if OC passes, within a year or two local shooting ranges will probably change their rules to accommodate it.
:iagree: In my experience the people who want to open carry at the range are "jerks" and they are one of the main reasons why open carry is not legal. The term "jerk" is a euphemism which I use because I can't post my real description on this forum. :tiphat:
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Re: FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

Post by steveincowtown »

WildBill wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:OC is not legal, and so local ranges tend not to support it. But I'll bet you that if OC passes, within a year or two local shooting ranges will probably change their rules to accommodate it.
:iagree: In my experience the people who want to open carry at the range are "jerks" and they are one of the main reasons why open carry is not legal. The term "jerk" is a euphemism which I use because I can't post my real description on this forum. :tiphat:
A good deal of folks in the general population think that about CHLers as well. Such a shame.

OC doesn't have a chance right now because of a gentleman named Joe, not because folks want to OC at a range.

Wildbill, I always enjoy your comments and insight, but I must say I think you might be way off here. :tiphat:
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Re: FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

Post by Beiruty »

WildBill wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:OC is not legal, and so local ranges tend not to support it. But I'll bet you that if OC passes, within a year or two local shooting ranges will probably change their rules to accommodate it.
:iagree: In my experience the people who want to open carry at the range are "jerks" and they are one of the main reasons why open carry is not legal. The term "jerk" is a euphemism which I use because I can't post my real description on this forum. :tiphat:
Can you explain why removing your concealment garment at the range to shoot a rifle is being equated to being a "jerk"? If you OC carry at your property is that also being equated to being a "jerk"?
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Re: FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

Post by n5wd »

Beiruty wrote:Can you explain why removing your concealment garment at the range to shoot a rifle is being equated to being a "jerk"?
FGC's rules, which you agreed to obey when you signed up for the membership, states that if you're going to shoot your carry weapon, have it out and bagged when you arrive because you agree to keep your concealed weapon concealed. Being a jerk is agreeing to follow their rules, then whining about them on a statewide (if not nationally known) forum instead of taking your complaint to the management of the club.

Of course, if it matters to you that much, you can ask for a refund of your pro-rata dues.
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Re: FGC: Ridiculous Anti-OC policy

Post by jmra »

steveincowtown wrote:
WildBill wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:OC is not legal, and so local ranges tend not to support it. But I'll bet you that if OC passes, within a year or two local shooting ranges will probably change their rules to accommodate it.
:iagree: In my experience the people who want to open carry at the range are "jerks" and they are one of the main reasons why open carry is not legal. The term "jerk" is a euphemism which I use because I can't post my real description on this forum. :tiphat:
A good deal of folks in the general population think that about CHLers as well. Such a shame.

OC doesn't have a chance right now because of a gentleman named Joe, not because folks want to OC at a range.

Wildbill, I always enjoy your comments and insight, but I must say I think you might be way off here. :tiphat:
I don't think he's off at all, I think he dead on. Unless your definition of "a good deal of the general population" is completely different than mine, you are very mistaken about their opinion of CC. If you were right we wouldn't have concealed carry. That being said, "a good deal of the general population" is opposed to OC which is why Joe is still in a position to stop it from passing.
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