Employment and CHL application

[Jared1981]

Hello all,

I'm new here and I'm wondering if anyone has ever put "n/a" for employment history.

I ask because very few shall issue state still ask for employment history. Furthermore I do not feel comfortable answering this question. Even if they never contact the employer it still feels like a severe invasion of my privacy. Some of us work for very anti-gun companies that one would be subjected to greater scrutiny at the wrong person in HR ever found out or through the phone call if it ever happened.

I know many years ago in Georgia somebody refused to answer the employer question, when he was denied he sued and the court said they could no longer ask that question.

If anyone has any experience with this I would appreciate to hear what you did and how it went for you.

In a couple of states I have put "n/a" and it was never a problem but I am not sure about Texas.

[WildBill]

Hello all,

I'm new here and I'm wondering if anyone has ever put "n/a" for employment history.

I ask because very few shall issue state still ask for employment history. Furthermore I do not feel comfortable answering this question. Even if they never contact the employer it still feels like a severe invasion of my privacy. Some of us work for very anti-gun companies that one would be subjected to greater scrutiny at the wrong person in HR ever found out or through the phone call if it ever happened.

I know many years ago in Georgia somebody refused to answer the employer question, when he was denied he sued and the court said they could no longer ask that question.

If anyone has any experience with this I would appreciate to hear what you did and how it went for you.

In a couple of states I have put "n/a" and it was never a problem but I am not sure about Texas.

If you were not working, put unemployed, if that is the case.

In any case, they will not contact the employer.

The DPS wants to know where you were living at the time so they can do their background check in the area where you lived during that time.

If they need to get ahold of you during working hours to ask a question, they need the contact information.

[Jared1981]

Hello all,

I'm new here and I'm wondering if anyone has ever put "n/a" for employment history.

I ask because very few shall issue state still ask for employment history. Furthermore I do not feel comfortable answering this question. Even if they never contact the employer it still feels like a severe invasion of my privacy. Some of us work for very anti-gun companies that one would be subjected to greater scrutiny at the wrong person in HR ever found out or through the phone call if it ever happened.

I know many years ago in Georgia somebody refused to answer the employer question, when he was denied he sued and the court said they could no longer ask that question.

If anyone has any experience with this I would appreciate to hear what you did and how it went for you.

In a couple of states I have put "n/a" and it was never a problem but I am not sure about Texas.

If you were not working, put unemployed, if that is the case.

In any case, they will not contact the employer.

The DPS wants to know where you were living at the time so they can do their background check in the area where you lived during that time.

If they need to get ahold of you during working hours to ask a question, they need the contact information.

Thank you Bill.

I have been employed however it's just a matter of principle, I have a clean background, they can contact me on my cell phone at any time, and being that Texas is not the May issue state, I am wondering if anyone has ever been turned down for putting in a for employment.

I would be happy to put down the counties where I have worked however they are all out-of-state but I do not feel comfortable putting where I work for the reasons I stated above. Although it is rare, this has cost people their employment in New York and Ohio.

[WildBill]

Hello all,

I'm new here and I'm wondering if anyone has ever put "n/a" for employment history.

I ask because very few shall issue state still ask for employment history. Furthermore I do not feel comfortable answering this question. Even if they never contact the employer it still feels like a severe invasion of my privacy. Some of us work for very anti-gun companies that one would be subjected to greater scrutiny at the wrong person in HR ever found out or through the phone call if it ever happened.

I know many years ago in Georgia somebody refused to answer the employer question, when he was denied he sued and the court said they could no longer ask that question.

If anyone has any experience with this I would appreciate to hear what you did and how it went for you.

In a couple of states I have put "n/a" and it was never a problem but I am not sure about Texas.

If you were not working, put unemployed, if that is the case.

In any case, they will not contact the employer.

The DPS wants to know where you were living at the time so they can do their background check in the area where you lived during that time.

If they need to get ahold of you during working hours to ask a question, they need the contact information.

Thank you Bill.

I have been employed however it's just a matter of principle, I have a clean background, they can contact me on my cell phone at any time, and being that Texas is not the May issue state, I am wondering if anyone has ever been turned down for putting in a for employment.

I would be happy to put down the counties where I have worked however they are all out-of-state but I do not feel comfortable putting where I work for the reasons I stated above. Although it is rare, this has cost people their employment in New York and Ohio.

I was contacted at work because the DPS couldn't find my DL information in their database. The DPS Trooper doing the background check left a message on my phone and asked me to call. She didn't state the reason, just her name and phone number.

If you don't have a direct/private line at work, just use your cell phone as the contact phone number.

Sorry for being rude. Welcome to the forum!

[Jared1981]

Hello all,

I'm new here and I'm wondering if anyone has ever put "n/a" for employment history.

I ask because very few shall issue state still ask for employment history. Furthermore I do not feel comfortable answering this question. Even if they never contact the employer it still feels like a severe invasion of my privacy. Some of us work for very anti-gun companies that one would be subjected to greater scrutiny at the wrong person in HR ever found out or through the phone call if it ever happened.

I know many years ago in Georgia somebody refused to answer the employer question, when he was denied he sued and the court said they could no longer ask that question.

If anyone has any experience with this I would appreciate to hear what you did and how it went for you.

In a couple of states I have put "n/a" and it was never a problem but I am not sure about Texas.

If you were not working, put unemployed, if that is the case.

In any case, they will not contact the employer.

The DPS wants to know where you were living at the time so they can do their background check in the area where you lived during that time.

If they need to get ahold of you during working hours to ask a question, they need the contact information.

Thank you Bill.

I have been employed however it's just a matter of principle, I have a clean background, they can contact me on my cell phone at any time, and being that Texas is not the May issue state, I am wondering if anyone has ever been turned down for putting in a for employment.

I would be happy to put down the counties where I have worked however they are all out-of-state but I do not feel comfortable putting where I work for the reasons I stated above. Although it is rare, this has cost people their employment in New York and Ohio.

I was contacted at work because the DPS couldn't find my DL information in their database. The DPS Trooper doing the background check left a message on my phone and asked me to call. She didn't state the reason, just her name and phone number.

If you don't have a direct/private line at work, just use your cell phone as the contact phone number.

Sorry for being rude. Welcome to the forum!

Thank you for the welcome. I did not take that as being rude at all.

It just comes down to principal. I really just do not want to mention employment. Theoretically, one could be unemployed and have caused problems in every county in the state yet they would not know that simply because they did not have a job.

The only time that would make sense to ask for employment is if one was applying for a Maryland or New Jersey license, where the license would be restricted to employment activities.

I just figured that being shall issue in Texas that one's employment status could not be held against them and that only the criminal disqualifiers could.

I guess until this question gets answered I will just carry with my Arizona or Utah licenses.

Thank you though.

[tbrown]

It just comes down to principal. I really just do not want to mention employment.

That is your right but be aware that a false statement is grounds for denial and may be a criminal act. However, nobody is forcing you to apply if you are not willing to complete the application process. It's your choice.

[jbarn]

It just comes down to principal. I really just do not want to mention employment.

That is your right but be aware that a false statement is grounds for denial and may be a criminal act. However, nobody is forcing you to apply if you are not willing to complete the application process. It's your choice.

That is what I came to write.

Texas is a shall issue state IF you meet the requirments.

[Jumping Frog]

I would be happy to put down the counties where I have worked however they are all out-of-state but I do not feel comfortable putting where I work for the reasons I stated above. Although it is rare, this has cost people their employment in New York and Ohio.

I throw down the baloney flag for Ohio.

The Ohio CHL application doesn't even ask for employers or references. There is no process in Ohio for a sheriff to even go down that path. Furthermore, all applications in Ohio are confidential and it would be a criminal offense for a sheriff to even reveal anything about an applicant to an employer.

[Jared1981]

It just comes down to principal. I really just do not want to mention employment.

That is your right but be aware that a false statement is grounds for denial and may be a criminal act. However, nobody is forcing you to apply if you are not willing to complete the application process. It's your choice.

That is what I came to write.

Texas is a shall issue state IF you meet the requirments.

Is listing an employer a statutory requirement?

Listing "n/a" is not a criminal act, it's legalese for saying not applicable, sometimes a polite way of saying its none of their business.

I'm just surprised at some of this stuff, they also demand a social security number even though Section 7 of the Privacy Act prohibits that from being required since the CHL database wasn't obviously around before 1975.

[Jared1981]

I would be happy to put down the counties where I have worked however they are all out-of-state but I do not feel comfortable putting where I work for the reasons I stated above. Although it is rare, this has cost people their employment in New York and Ohio.

I throw down the baloney flag for Ohio.

The Ohio CHL application doesn't even ask for employers or references. There is no process in Ohio for a sheriff to even go down that path. Furthermore, all applications in Ohio are confidential and it would be a criminal offense for a sheriff to even reveal anything about an applicant to an employer.

You are factually incorrect on this, Ohio permit info was public information for a couple of years after shall issue was passed in 2004, many newspapers went crazy and published permit holders information. Some people did lose their jobs over having a CHL. That was one of the reasons they changed the law to make it private.

So Its not baloney, you stand corrected on this.

[Jared1981]

It just comes down to principal. I really just do not want to mention employment.

That is your right but be aware that a false statement is grounds for denial and may be a criminal act. However, nobody is forcing you to apply if you are not willing to complete the application process. It's your choice.

It's not a material fact. That's why you can still get a passport while leaving all employment questions blank or by putting n/a.

The reason I asked this question is because the law only allows for a permit to be denied for being federally prohibited or if you meet the list of additional disqualifiers in the statute, and employment isn't mentioned in there.

Surely they couldn't ask sexual preference or other issues of immaterial nature, so unless Texas plans to go may-issue and allow for work purpose only restrictions, then I don't see why employment is relevant as it's not material.

I also don't buy the reason that they ask is so they can do a further background check, if I was convicted of a crime, it would show up when they run my prints.

[Jumping Frog]

I would be happy to put down the counties where I have worked however they are all out-of-state but I do not feel comfortable putting where I work for the reasons I stated above. Although it is rare, this has cost people their employment in New York and Ohio.

I throw down the baloney flag for Ohio.

The Ohio CHL application doesn't even ask for employers or references. There is no process in Ohio for a sheriff to even go down that path. Furthermore, all applications in Ohio are confidential and it would be a criminal offense for a sheriff to even reveal anything about an applicant to an employer.

You are factually incorrect on this, Ohio permit info was public information for a couple of years after shall issue was passed in 2004, many newspapers went crazy and published permit holders information. Some people did lose their jobs over having a CHL. That was one of the reasons they changed the law to make it private.

So Its not baloney, you stand corrected on this.

I don't stand corrected at all. It has been obvious from the get-go that your questions, discussion, and statements have been related to providing employment information. You went on to state that providing the counties where you worked somehow resulted in people losing their job.

Now you make a major topic shift and refer to the fact that after the the Ohio CHL law was enacted in April, 2004, the Cleveland Plain Dealer published a list of licenses in June, 2004. There were four other minor (local) newspapers that also published lists. These actions caused the Ohio Legislature to change the law so that such lists cannot be published in the future, so this was not only a change in topic, it was raising a moot point that no longer applies to Ohio. BTW, there is no proof or reported cases that I am aware of that publishing the list way back then resulted in anyone losing their job -- and I was closely following the Ohio CHL community.

Publishing such a list is also illegal in Texas, making your concern not applicable here anyway. Therefore the baloney flag still flies.

[infoman]

You definitely do need to list your previous 5 years of employment. No way around that requirement right now. You could lie & say you've unemployed during that time period I suppose. You could also say you're self-employed & list only your residence address. Otherwise, there's no sense in debating it- you must list that information or there's no way your application will go through.

[WildBill]

It just comes down to principal. I really just do not want to mention employment.

That is your right but be aware that a false statement is grounds for denial and may be a criminal act. However, nobody is forcing you to apply if you are not willing to complete the application process. It's your choice.

It's not a material fact. That's why you can still get a passport while leaving all employment questions blank or by putting n/a.

The reason I asked this question is because the law only allows for a permit to be denied for being federally prohibited or if you meet the list of additional disqualifiers in the statute, and employment isn't mentioned in there.

Surely they couldn't ask sexual preference or other issues of immaterial nature, so unless Texas plans to go may-issue and allow for work purpose only restrictions, then I don't see why employment is relevant as it's not material.

I also don't buy the reason that they ask is so they can do a further background check, if I was convicted of a crime, it would show up when they run my prints.

You are not eligible to get a CHL if you are currently charged or indictment for certain crimes. I don't think this would show up when they run your prints.

I understand your objection, but realistically there are a number of government agencies and private databases that can obtain your work history [and more] in about 5 seconds. Not putting the information on the application won't serve any purpose except for delaying the application process. If "they" really wanted to find out where you worked, they don't have to ask you. They can also check to see if you are lying on the application.

[jimlongley]

I also throw the flag, for NY. I am a Life Member of the NYSR&PA and have been for many decades and for several years was the co-chair of a coalition committee that was attempting to correct egregious violations of NY State pistol permit law by judges in charge of issuing those pistol permits. NY being a may issue state, judges would just deny for no stated reason and that was that. We successfully sued, and then judges had to provide a reason, so then they just started moving all PP applications to the bottom of the stack, so we sued, successfully, and also got the law changed, so that permits had to be acted upon in a timely manner. And then they started putting bogus reasons for denial on them, such as when a 28 year old competition pistol shooter from another state whose husband had the misfortune to get a job transfer to NY, was denied because she was too young, and then after a suit because she had young children in the house, and then, and then, and eventually we ran out of funds and she and her husband found a way for her to keep her guns in another state and travel there to shoot.

In all of my years of active membership, and in all of the years since I left NY, I have never heard of ONE case where someone was fired because they had a pistol permit, although I do know of a couple where failure to obtain a pistol permit resulted in termination of employment.

----------------

When my wife and I applied for our CHLs, a while back now, due to the way the questionnaire was worded, she only put down those times when she was actually employed, leaving out a couple of years when she was unemployed, from the time we got married in 1993 until 1995 when volunteer work at the school turned into a job offer, and then after we moved to TX when she was a stay at home mom for a while again.

DPS bounced her app due to gaps in employment history. A quick phone call determined that all they wanted was a continuous timeline of employment, including unemployment, and resubmitting with "unemployed" filling the gaps was all it took for the app to go through. We were told that the employment history was a check against a variety to things, but that's hearsay.

---------------------------

So far I have not seen one reasonable reason for NOT putting your employment history on your app.

OTOH, you could go ahead and try it and let us know how that works out. After all, it worked for you elsewhere, right?