scope

[winters]

I really need some help with a new scope. I am looking for a scope for my Remington 700 in 308. I would like something with plenty of magnification and mrad sights. I have been been look at the nightforce 8-32 nxs or the vortex viper pst 6-24. The nightforce is basically overkill but I would like something for 500+ yard shooting. The vortex seems like a nice scope too for much better pricing. any suggestions?

[The Annoyed Man]

I really need some help with a new scope. I am looking for a scope for my Remington 700 in 308. I would like something with plenty of magnification and mrad sights. I have been been look at the nightforce 8-32 nxs or the vortex viper pst 6-24. The nightforce is basically overkill but I would like something for 500+ yard shooting. The vortex seems like a nice scope too for much better pricing. any suggestions?

I shot my AR15 at 500 yards not long ago, with a Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP MRAD, and it was plenty of scope for that distance. It would have been usable at further than that. Lots of shooters use 10X fixed power scopes at 1,000 yards. I have a SWFA 5-20x50HD on a .308 Remington 700. Great scope, but $1,500 not counting the rings and 20 MOA rail. It is FFP, mil/mil/mil, with an illuminated MRAD reticle. The Viper is way cheaper. I actually love the MRAD reticle on the 4-16x50 PST. The 4-16 scope has an MSRP of $999 and I paid $899 for mine at Cabelas. The 6-24 FFP has an MSRP of $1048. My guess is that Cabela's price would be about $100 less. Going with the SFP version takes about $200 off the price.....but I wouldn't waste my time. FFP is better.

One thing I notice about my 5-20 is that at highest magnification, it is difficult to shoot as close as 100 yards with it. It is so clear and bright that the slightest bit of shake makes the target jump around a bit. I usually use 20x for spotting, and then back it out to 10x-12x for shooting. Even at 500 yards, as the mirage effect got worse with the day getting hotter and windier, I backed the scope out from 16x to about 8x-10x, and it was much easier to see and make adjustments.

Nightforce is nice, but they are spendy, and I'm not sure that most shooters are good enough to turn the difference in quality between one of those and say a Vortex or a Leupold, into shooting performance. All the magnification in the world isn't going to help if your shooting technique isn't good.

[winters]

I was mainly wanting the magnification for spotting type scope and not use it all for general shooting. The only place I have found that even carries both is in louisianna. Maybe I need to plan another stop there when I go again soon. Pretty annoying the gun shows only carry the super cheap stuff and not even leapuold. They seem to cater to the tacticool croud on scopes.

the one thing I like about the vortex is the ffp where night force you have to spend 3000 dollars for that.

[The Annoyed Man]

I was mainly wanting the magnification for spotting type scope and not use it all for general shooting. The only place I have found that even carries both is in louisianna. Maybe I need to plan another stop there when I go again soon. Pretty annoying the gun shows only carry the super cheap stuff and not even leapuold. They seem to cater to the tactical croud on scopes.

the one thing I like about the vortex is the ffp where night force you have to spend 3000 dollars for that.

You can get a 3-15x42 SFWA with FFP MRAD reticle for $699. It's not illuminated, but it uses the same reticle design as the illuminated 5-20 - http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-15x42-Tactica ... 62238.aspx. These SWFA Scopes are absolutely bullet-proof, and they have good glass in them, even the non-HD models. They are built like tanks.

You can also get an FFP 3-9x42 with the same reticle for $599: http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-9x42-Tactical ... 50716.aspx

Vortex is real nice. I love mine. But if budget is a consideration and the VIPER PST line is too much, you don't have to spend that kind of money to get a very good scope, if you know where to look. The SWFA scopes are made in the same factory in Japan which also makes all of Bushnell's and Nikon's scopes, as well as a number of other brands.

[winters]

well i went to go look at the vortex 6x24 and i can't even hardly see the subdivisions on the reticle. i don't remember the night force being that small. It does seem to have pretty good glass.

illumination is not a big deal to me. Though is its 2000 dollars i expect it.

im also a huge dork and want a moa reticle not mrad.

[ChillMickelson]

I've got a Nikon M-308 that I've taken out pretty far. I got the BDC reticle and use the app for my store bought loads.

[Pawpaw]

I have the Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP with the MOA reticle. It is one heck of a scope. Being FFP, the reticle will grow or shrink with the zoom setting so the subtensions are always easy to see and will always be accurate.

[The Annoyed Man]

im also a huge dork and want a moa reticle not mrad.

There's nothing wrong with MOA reticles per se. They are fine if the click values of the elevation and windage knobs are also in MOA. But even in a scope that has an MOA reticle and 1/4"/click adjusters, they are not matched. 1 MOA is not 1" at 100 yards, like most people think. It's actually 1.047 inches. That's not a big deal maybe at 100 yards, or even at 500 yards, especially for hunting purposes, but at 1,000 yards while target shooting, 1 MOA is 10.47", almost a half inch of deviation. And if your adjustments don't track 100% true all the way out (most scopes, even most high end scopes don't), then at 1,000 yards, you can't really count on the scope.......... unless you already know how far off your deviation is at that distance and can compensate for it.

Back in the day, mil-dot scopes tended to have 1/4" clicks on the knobs, which meant that you had to do some math in your head to convert inches to mils just to figure out how many clicks of the knob would match the change you needed to see in your reticle...... Made no kind of sense. But when I bought my first mil-dot scope, a 10x fixed power SWFA with HD glass, it came with .1mil clicks on the knobs, and the oval USMC type dots. I fell in love with milling reticles and .1mil adjustments. It reduces zeroing to a 2-shot affair, and makes any on-the-fly adjustments into a base 10 affair with no conversion math. If your POI is .5 mil left and .8 mil high from your POA, you dial in 5 clicks right and 8 clicks down, and you should be dead on—assuming both you and the rifle are up to it. My last two variable power scope purchases—both the 5-20x SFWA and the 4-16x Vortex—have had "milling" rather than "mil-dot" reticles, meaning that instead of dots at 1 mil increments, they use subtension hash marks at the 1mil increments, with shorter subtension hash marks at .5mil points. And then at the extremities, the last 2.5mil have .2mil hash marks, giving you finer accuracy of adjustment at longer ranges.

The PST MOA scopes have matching turrets, so the principles would be the same.

well i went to go look at the vortex 6x24 and i can't even hardly see the subdivisions on the reticle. i don't remember the night force being that small.

By "went and looked", are you meaning you looked at the website, or the actual scope? And if you looked at the actual scope, did you actually play with the variable power? If you were looking at an FFP (First Focal Plane) scope, then the appearance of the reticle shrinks and grows with the magnification settings. The Nightforce you were looking at would do the same thing.

THIS is the reticle with the zoom backed all the way out, meaning 4x on the 4-16, or 6x on the 6-24:


THIS is the reticle zoomed all the way in, meaning 16x on the 4-16, or 24x on the 6-24:


FFP scopes have a distinct advantage over SFP (Second Focal Plane) scopes. Because the reticle size changes according to magnification on FFP scopes, the relationships between the hashmarks on the reticle and the click values on the knobs remain unchanged. A .1mil (or 1/4 MOA) adjustment at 4x is still a .1mil adjustment at 16x. If you have a SFP scope, the reticle will always look "zoomed in" no matter the magnification, but that means that the relationship between the hashmarks and the knobs is only valid at one point along the magnification range. That point is typically the halfway point between the highest and lowest magnifications. So if you get the 6-24 with a SFP reticle, then the measurements on the reticle are ONLY valid at 15x (24x-6x=18x, 18x÷2=9x, 6x+9x=15x), and they will be useless for either ranging OR making adjustments at any other magnification power.

OTH, SFP scopes are cheaper to make, and that's why they cost a lot less than FFP in the same scope. And like I said, the Nightforce or any other premium brand with a FFP reticle will be exactly the same way.

[winters]

yup I went to bass pro and stood around for an hour to look through it. Whats interesting about the nf nxs is none of them are ffp even though they cost way more.

[The Annoyed Man]

yup I went to bass pro and stood around for an hour to look through it. Whats interesting about the nf nxs is none of them are ffp even though they cost way more.

NXS 3.5-15x50, First Focal Plane: http://nightforceoptics.com/nxs/3-5-15x ... iflescope/. Bass Pro just didn't have them in stock, but Nightforce makes them. If you're in the DFW metroplex, checkout Cabelas in Fort Worth. I live in Grapevine, so Bass Pro is VERY close to me, but I don't bother with them most of the time and will make the drive to Cabelas because Cabelas has a much better selection. That's where I bought my Viper PST.

[winters]

Na I goto Baton Rouge, LA once a month so I get my fill of cabelas and bass pro shop. I thought houstons bass pro was big until I went to louisiana. And cabelas gun section is even bigger there. Im just going to wait until next week to get a better selection I can try out. East of Baton Rouge there is a shop that carries more night force then anyone I have ever seen. I know of the nxs you quote I just wanted more power.

[ripnbst]

Hands down the Vortex Razor HD is what I would recommend. Pick one up as a demo model or lightly used. It is on par with NF if not slightly better.

[winters]

Hands down the Vortex Razor HD is what I would recommend. Pick one up as a demo model or lightly used. It is on par with NF if not slightly better.

So its better then the viper pst?

[Beiruty]

Can you specify your target size at 500 yrd? in inches or MOA? Hitting a 17" plate is not like shooting a 4" plate at 500 yrs. What is your rifle grouping at 100yrd, do you reload or you shoot Factory ammo. Is it Match Ammo or is it just factory hunting ammo?

[winters]

I only shoot at the range whatever a normal target is about a 1 foot circle?i can get 1 inch groupings with just 150grain Remington coreloct 308 caliber at 100 yards. I have to readjust for my suppressor but im used to that.