MPA and Alcohol sales

[RPBrown]

I just went by what I would call a "beer barn". These are drive through places to purchase beer and wine where you don't have to get out of your vehicle. Now I have seen these before but as I drove by, my old mind got to thinking. If you had a weapon being carried in the glove box under protection of MPA and decided to pull through one of these places would you be in violation of TABC unlicensed possession law? Just curious.

[n5wd]

Good question. I suppose an argument might be made that the path through the beer barn is not "inside the establishment", therefore you would not be in violation of the law. But, on the other side, it's certainly within the establishment's area for customers to be, so....

I think I'd punt that one to TABC and see what they say!

[Keith B]

This kind of goes back to this topic http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=129&t=75110" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically, an arrest for carrying an unlicensed weapon would be based on TPC 46.02. Since MPA is not a violation of the penal code, then it is kind of like carrying a long gun into the establishment; not illegal for the person carrying, but a violation of the TABC code for the business if they don't ask you to leave.

Now, if it's properly concealed, then there is no way the are going to know you have a gun in the car, so they can't ask you to leave because you have a firearm. TABC would not be able to legitimately pull their license for not asking you to leave since they didn't know they were in violation.

Bottom line, since there's no violation of the penal code, then unless you would pull the weapon out and display it, there really isn't any law broken for the MPA person, and no way to enforce the TABC rule for the business.

[Charlies.Contingency]

This kind of goes back to this topic http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=129&t=75110" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically, an arrest for carrying an unlicensed weapon would be based on TPC 46.02. Since MPA is not a violation of the penal code, then it is kind of like carrying a long gun into the establishment; not illegal for the person carrying, but a violation of the TABC code for the business if they don't ask you to leave.

Now, if it's properly concealed, then there is no way the are going to know you have a gun in the car, so they can't ask you to leave because you have a firearm. TABC would not be able to legitimately pull their license for not asking you to leave since they didn't know they were in violation.

Bottom line, since there's no violation of the penal code, then unless you would pull the weapon out and display it, there really isn't any law broken for the MPA person, and no way to enforce the TABC rule for the business.

As confusing as it is to put together, I must agree with you Keith. I was going to try to put something together to attempt to explain this, but you did far better than I was able to! As long as everybody is following their own rules, everybody will be alright. I had a drive through barn near me that shut down a few years ago, and I thought about the same thing when I worked in that area. There is nothing specifically prohibiting it on the books, so I would go for it!

[C-dub]

How could it possibly be a violation at all if you haven't entered the premises?

[Happily Ever After]

How could it possibly be a violation at all if you haven't entered the premises?

The meaning of premises is different in 46.02 and that's a good thing or else Texans would need a CHL to carry a concealed handgun in their own back yards.

[Keith B]

How could it possibly be a violation at all if you haven't entered the premises?

A drive-thru beer barn would be your vehicle 'inside' the building or portion of a building.

[C-dub]

How could it possibly be a violation at all if you haven't entered the premises?

A drive-thru beer barn would be your vehicle 'inside' the building or portion of a building.

Would it really be considered inside? Parking lots, even a structure, are not considered premises for this purpose. I'm really confused by how it could be possible since the customer is not actually entering the building. Is this any different than going through the drive-thru at McD's or Taco Bell?

[Keith B]

How could it possibly be a violation at all if you haven't entered the premises?

A drive-thru beer barn would be your vehicle 'inside' the building or portion of a building.

Would it really be considered inside? Parking lots, even a structure, are not considered premises for this purpose. I'm really confused by how it could be possible since the customer is not actually entering the building. Is this any different than going through the drive-thru at McD's or Taco Bell?

I forgot, you are not a native Texan and probably don't know what a drive-thru beer barn is. Here is an example.

[RetNavy]

this is the TABC for the local one here..


License #: BQ745470

Trade Name: RAY'S PLACE

County: Lamar Orig. Issue Date: 4/5/2010
Status: Current Exp. Date: 4/4/2016
Wine Percent: 17
Location Phone No.: 903-739-1989
Subordinates:
Related To: Gun Sign: BLUE


since its a blue sign, any unlicensed firearms on the "premises" would be considered a felony.... just my opinion....
my take if a person is carrying in thier vehicle under MPA and DOES NOT have a CHL, and they go through a drive thru beer barn, then its against the law... just my opinion

[C-dub]

How could it possibly be a violation at all if you haven't entered the premises?

A drive-thru beer barn would be your vehicle 'inside' the building or portion of a building.

Would it really be considered inside? Parking lots, even a structure, are not considered premises for this purpose. I'm really confused by how it could be possible since the customer is not actually entering the building. Is this any different than going through the drive-thru at McD's or Taco Bell?

I forgot, you are not a native Texan and probably don't know what a drive-thru beer barn is. Here is an example.

[ Image ]

Cheap shot Keith. Just kidding!

Although, you are correct that I did not have a full appreciation of a Beer Barn, but only because I haven't been through one. Wow!

[Keith B]

this is the TABC for the local one here..


License #: BQ745470

Trade Name: RAY'S PLACE

County: Lamar Orig. Issue Date: 4/5/2010
Status: Current Exp. Date: 4/4/2016
Wine Percent: 17
Location Phone No.: 903-739-1989
Subordinates:
Related To: Gun Sign: BLUE


since its a blue sign, any unlicensed firearms on the "premises" would be considered a felony.... just my opinion....
my take if a person is carrying in thier vehicle under MPA and DOES NOT have a CHL, and they go through a drive thru beer barn, then its against the law... just my opinion

Disagree. The law on this is TPC 46.02. To be illegal, you would have to be in violation of 46.02. If you have a handgun in your possesion and do not have a CHL, then you are illegal carrying it into a convenience store, no matter whether they sell alcohol or not. A long gun is not illegal to carry without a license.

Now, TPC 46.02 defines it is not illegal to carry in your vehicle, and also specifies that if you DO violate the penal code for UCW, AND it is done in an establishment that sells alcohol, then the penalty goes up to a felony.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.
(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.
(a-3) For purposes of this section, "watercraft" means any boat, motorboat, vessel, or personal watercraft, other than a seaplane on water, used or capable of being used for transportation on water.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.

There are some other things that would make it illegal, like handgun in plain view, but concealed in the car is not an offense.

Also, note that 46.02 defines premises as 'real property' and that also includes open land outside of the building.

So, if you are not in violation of 46.02, then there is nothing to charge you with and no charge to escalate to a felony because it was on a premises that sells alcohol.

[RPBrown]

Keith, although I agree with you on most things, This appears to me to make it illegal as you are still on the premise.

[Charlies.Contingency]

Keith, although I agree with you on most things, This appears to me to make it illegal as you are still on the premise.

The issue with the matter is where or not, driving through a "drive through" building in your own vehicle can be consider under premises. There is not a lot of explanation on where you can legally have your firearm, as opposed to the labor code which is very specific, but regards to on CHL's and their place of work/employment. This may come down to in the field, of whether or not an officer views it as on the premises or not. That would not be the best outcome, but at least if (we/you/ya'll) are following the law, nobody will ever know, and it should not become an issue. A lawyer may be helpful in this situation, but both statues collide in this particular instance, and one can only speculate (IMO) which would trump the other, or which does not apply. Being that it is public access by vehicle is a lot different that walking into a store, as you could not carry to begin with, but you can legally carry in your vehicle.

Any lawyers here? What does Chas think about this?

[Keith B]

Actually guys, I am 99.99999% sure this is correct. The reason being is this post from our resident TABC expert agrees with me

http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 5&#p829485" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This would also apply to not exiting the vehicle inside of a Beer Barn drive-thru as premises is not defined any differently.